Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by LadyTevar »

So... everyone got the ending they wanted.

Karli got dead, because there was no way she could/would have given up. Sharon got her pardon, and now has access to US secrets to sell. Isaiah gets recognized (but is still 'dead'). Walker becomes USAgent, for the Comptress Val, who is most likely a Skrull Agent herself. Bucky finishes his book of regrets, Sam is now Cap, and gets to tell a Senator how badly they fucked up.
Zemo... well.. the Butler did it. :-D
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Solauren »

I enjoyed it.

My only slight point - the Falcon to Captain American suit was close to the comics. Could have been closer, but I approve of the changes regardless.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Falcon certainly seemed to have his hands full with that one guy he fought inside the building at the start, I expected a better start from him in his new Wakanda-designed suit. While not explicitly stated it's probably bulletproof.

Walker's shield didn't last long, not being made of vibranium it got bashed to the point there wasn't a smooth area left. As for the welds in his final version, when he tosses it aside and it lands by Bucky's feet there's a split second where you can see the red outer ring coming away from the white ring. So not only was it not held together well but the individual parts weren't up to the job either.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Solauren »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2021-04-24 10:53am Falcon certainly seemed to have his hands full with that one guy he fought inside the building at the start, I expected a better start from him in his new Wakanda-designed suit. While not explicitly stated it's probably bulletproof.

Walker's shield didn't last long, not being made of vibranium it got bashed to the point there wasn't a smooth area left. As for the welds in his final version, when he tosses it aside and it lands by Bucky's feet there's a split second where you can see the red outer ring coming away from the white ring. So not only was it not held together well but the individual parts weren't up to the job either.
I found both to by symbolic. Falcon is getting into his new role, and is going to go through a rough patch as he gets into gear.
Also, his opponent fought Steve Rogers, a Super Soldier, and gave him a hard time.

As for Walker's shield, I thought that was very reflective of him as a character.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Batman »

Concur. It was Sam's first time using the new suit, it's going to take him some time to get used to it.
I liked the new suit. A little too much white for my tastes, but overall not bad.
I liked Walker essentially 'ditching' the shield thereby ditching his Captain America delusion so he could save people showing he's still a good man, just one who stumbled along the way (badly). We'll have to see where the USAgent thing goes.
Overall VERY satisfactory episode I think
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Broomstick »

The only objection I have to Sam's Cap outfit is that he needs a goddamned helmet! Seriously, leaving your braincase unprotected? What were the Wakandans thinking?
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Batman »

The same thing I think about the batsuit? In a universe with the likes of Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Abomination, Thanos and all the others of that power the suit is mostly decoration anyway?

On a more serious note you're of course completely correct. For when you're NOT facing 'you can't win anyway' threats leaving your head that unprotected is just dumb. Of course, there's just no 'visible' protection, and the MCU is no stranger to forcefield technology
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Solauren »

Broomstick wrote: 2021-04-25 07:44pm The only objection I have to Sam's Cap outfit is that he needs a goddamned helmet! Seriously, leaving your braincase unprotected? What were the Wakandans thinking?
Considering how unbelivably fast his wings respond to protect him from more serious dangers then a punch to the head, the helmet might not be needed.

However, I agree, it's a pit of an oversight. Hopefully, one that will be corrected.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Batman »

Plus there's Tony's nano suit technology and Star Lord's helmet so it's possible the Falcon America suit has a 'poofs into existence if necessary' helmet
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Wakandans did it with the Black Panther suit so it's certainly possible, what all of those had in common was that they were activated manually.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by wautd »

Just finished the season. It was overall... OK? It started off very promising but the lack of an interesting villain. A good superhero flick needs a good villain, but Karli was completely uncharismatic and boring. I also don't understand why Falcon tried to reason with her, especially after she already murdered innocent people
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

Random, cynical muse...how likely does Sam's Cap suit also have a "Wakandan failsafe" in it, like Bucky's arm?
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Batman »

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote: 2021-04-26 03:55am Random, cynical muse...how likely does Sam's Cap suit also have a "Wakandan failsafe" in it, like Bucky's arm?
And hoping Sam thinks to have this checked out, whom would he go to for it? Tony is obviously out as are the Wakandans, Reed Richards isn't in yet, so who would be the go-to guy for stuff like this in the MCU? Hank Pym maybe?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Broomstick »

Hank Pym and Professor Hulk, probably. Maybe New Asgard has someone who can help out with that, although their magitek is pretty different from what the Wakandans use.

It is true that this was not a stereotypical "superhero series", it leaned much more towards character development and character interaction than Boom!Pow!Smack! and designated villain. Despite it's flaws, I enjoyed it and found it a welcome change from the more typical formula, even if weak in spots. Like WandaVision, it's a different approach to telling these stories. I like the attempt to break out of the mold even if it is not always entirely successful.

Bottom line: I enjoyed watching and felt entertained. YMMV.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Broomstick wrote: 2021-04-26 11:10am Hank Pym and Professor Hulk, probably. Maybe New Asgard has someone who can help out with that, although their magitek is pretty different from what the Wakandans use.

It is true that this was not a stereotypical "superhero series", it leaned much more towards character development and character interaction than Boom!Pow!Smack! and designated villain. Despite it's flaws, I enjoyed it and found it a welcome change from the more typical formula, even if weak in spots. Like WandaVision, it's a different approach to telling these stories. I like the attempt to break out of the mold even if it is not always entirely successful.

Bottom line: I enjoyed watching and felt entertained. YMMV.
There wasn't any sign of their tech in New Asgard, which was basically a small Nordic fishing village. If they wanted to retain their advanced technology and knowledge they would probably been welcomed into Wakanda with open arms.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Tsyroc »

Soooo, since Secret Invasion is going to be a thing does anyone think that maybe Sharon Carter is currently a Skrull?

I'm hoping that the story doesn't follow the comics with tons of super Skrulls with lots of powers each but I do think that "so and so has been a Skrull since... ___________" could be interesting. The chaos of the Blip would have been a good time for people to be replaced.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Crazedwraith »

Considering the skrulls has been good guys so far in the MCu, it's interesting to see how they'll play that.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Solauren »

Different faction of Skrulls/offshot of them?

Also, with Secret Invasion, wouldn't that give them a chance to 'restore' Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, and recast the Black Panther?
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by LadyTevar »

Solauren wrote: 2021-04-27 09:15am Different faction of Skrulls/offshot of them?

Also, with Secret Invasion, wouldn't that give them a chance to 'restore' Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, and recast the Black Panther?
NO ONE wants to recast Black Panther, unless it's Shari picking it up. That's already been announced.

But yes, the Blip would have been a good time to recast, and also we don't know what faction of Skrulls might have gained influence during the Blip.
The question will be who's working for whom? Val and Sharon working together, or separate?
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Gandalf »

I hope Carter isn't a Skrull. This arc of being burned by her country and then just going "fuck it" finally made the character interesting.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Solauren »

I like the idea of Carter working with the Skrulls, without being one. It would explain how she was able to get set up so well in less then 7 years.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Gandalf »

Did anyone else get the weird post-colonial subtext throughout this whole thing? I can't for the life of me work out if it was intentional or not.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by LadyTevar »

Gandalf wrote: 2021-04-27 09:59pm Did anyone else get the weird post-colonial subtext throughout this whole thing? I can't for the life of me work out if it was intentional or not.
You mean the whole sociocultural thing wasn't blatant?
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by Gandalf »

Not so much sociocultural, but very specifically postcolonial. It's weird that nobody seemed to note the similarities between the Flag Smashers' cause and the US's genocidal westward expansion.
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Re: Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

Post by GuppyShark »

Odd, I had the exact opposite read (unless I've misinterpreted your words).

The Flag Smashers remember a time when nation states were more cooperative and post the Blip, those old battle lines had been redrawn.

Karli had a line where she talked about the people whom they had been taught to hate, during the 5 years of the snap were instead revealed to be friends and that was going away now that the 50% of the population who hadn't lived through it were reasserting themselves.

Isn't it the "Global Resource Council" that was rounding up people and forcibly resettling them?
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