Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Der Fuhrer has consulted with a Bush administration lawyer who wrote an opinion justifying torture on how to evade Federal laws on issues including immigration and "disorder" in cities, and rule by decree:

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2020/ju ... erboarding
The Trump administration has been consulting the former government lawyer who wrote the legal justification for waterboarding on how the president might try to rule by decree.

John Yoo told the Guardian he has been talking to White House officials about his view that a recent supreme court ruling on immigration would allow Trump to issue executive orders on whether to apply existing federal laws.

“If the court really believes what it just did, then it just handed President Trump a great deal of power, too,” Yoo, a professor at Berkeley Law, said.

“The supreme court has said President Obama could [choose not to] enforce immigration laws for about 2 million cases. And why can’t the Trump administration do something similar with immigration – create its own … program, but it could do it in areas beyond that, like healthcare, tax policy, criminal justice, inner city policy. I talked to them a fair amount about cities, because of the disorder.”

In a Fox News Sunday interview, Trump declared he would try to use that interpretation to try to force through decrees on healthcare, immigration and “various other plans” over the coming month. The White House consultations with Yoo were first reported by the Axios news website.

Constitutional scholars and human rights activists have also pointed to the deployment of paramilitary federal forces against protesters in Portland as a sign that Trump is ready to use this broad interpretation of presidential powers as a means to suppress basic constitutional rights.

“This is how it begins,” Laurence Tribe, a Harvard constitutional law professor, wrote on Twitter. “The dictatorial hunger for power is insatiable. If ever there was a time for peaceful civil disobedience, that time is upon us.”

Yoo became notorious for a legal memo he drafted in August 2002, when he was deputy assistant attorney general in the justice department’s office of legal counsel.

It stated: “Necessity or self-defense may justify interrogation methods that might violate” the criminal prohibition on torture.

Memos drafted by Yoo were used for justifying waterboarding and other forms of torture on terrorism suspects at CIA “black sites” around the world.

Asked if he now regretted his memos, Yoo replied: “I’m still not exactly sure about how far the CIA took its interrogation methods but I think if they stayed within the outlines of the legal memos, I think they weren’t violating American law.”

In a book titled Defender in Chief, due to be published next week, Yoo argues that Trump was fighting to restore the powers of the presidency, in a way that would have been approved by the framers of the US constitution.

“They wanted each branch to have certain constitutional weapons and then they wanted them to fight. And so they wanted the president to try to expand his powers but they expected also Congress to keep fighting with the President,” he said.

In a June article in the National Review, he wrote that a supreme court decision that blocked Trump’s attempt to repeal Barack Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals programme, known as Daca and established by executive order, meant Trump could do the same thing to achieve his policy goals.

Daca suspended deportations of undocumented migrants who arrived in the US as children. As an example of what Trump might achieve in the same way, Yoo suggested the president could declare a national right to carry firearms openly, in conflict with many state laws.

“He could declare that he would not enforce federal firearms laws,” Yoo wrote, “and that a new ‘Trump permit’ would free any holder of state and local gun-control restrictions.

“Even if Trump knew that his scheme lacked legal authority, he could get away with it for the length of his presidency,” he said. In a telephone interview, he added: “According to the supreme court, the president can now choose to under-enforce the law in certain areas and it can’t be undone by his successor unless that successor goes through this onerous thing called the Administrative Procedure Act, which usually takes one to two years.”

Constitutional scholars have rejected Yoo’s arguments as ignoring limits on the executive powers of the president imposed by the founders, who were determined to prevent the rise of a tyrant.

Tribe called Yoo’s interpretation of the Daca ruling “indefensible”.

He added: “I fear that this lawless administration will take full advantage of the fact that judicial wheels grind slowly and that it will be difficult to keep up with the many ways Trump, aided and abetted by Bill Barr as attorney general and Chad Wolf as acting head of homeland security, can usurp congressional powers and abridge fundamental rights in the immigration space in particular but also in matters of public health and safety.”

On the deployment of federal paramilitary units against Portland, Yoo said he did not know enough of the facts to deem whether it was an abuse of executive power.

“It has to be really reasonably related to protecting federal buildings,” he said. “If it’s just graffiti, that’s not enough. It really depends on what the facts are.”

Alka Pradhan, a defence counsel in the 9/11 terrorism cases against inmates in the Guantánamo Bay prison camp, said: “John Yoo’s so-called reasoning has always been based on ‘What can the president get away with?’ rather than ‘What is the purpose and letter of the law?’

“That is not legal reasoning, it’s inherently tyrannical and anti-democratic.”

Pradhan and other defence lawyers in the pre-trial hearings at the Guantánamo Bay military tribunal have argued that the use of torture against their clients, made possible by Yoo’s 2002 memo, invalidated much of the case against them.

“The fact that John Yoo is employed and free to opine on legal matters is an example of the culture of impunity in the United States,” she said.
In short, they are creating a legal argument for Trump to rule America as a dictator, via the use of torture, black sites, and secret police.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Trump on accused Epstein child rape accomplice Maxwell: "I wish her well":

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2020/ju ... h-her-well
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Today in Fascism: Michael Cohen, released into home confinement due to covid, was sent back to prison because he didn't sign an agreement that he would not publish his book on Trump until after the election. Even worse, he was allegedly sent back merely for questioning the agreement, not refusing to sign, and was immediately placed in solitary confinement (aka torture under international law) and denied access to a computer.

https://nytimes.com/2020/07/21/nyregion ... -book.html
Michael D. Cohen says it was no secret that he was writing a jailhouse tell-all book about his former boss, President Trump. He spent hours at a stretch working on his manuscript in a prison library before he was released on furlough in May because of the coronavirus.

Then, earlier this month, federal officials abruptly sent Mr. Cohen back to prison because he balked at signing an agreement that would have let him stay at home with a key restriction: He would not have been allowed to publish his book before the November elections.

Now Mr. Cohen has responded with a lawsuit claiming that the government has violated his First Amendment rights by returning him to custody and interrupting his writing.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Manhattan on Monday night, asked a judge to once again release Mr. Cohen and let him to serve the remainder of his three-year sentence back in home confinement.

The complaint, filed on Mr. Cohen’s behalf by private lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union, accuses Attorney General William P. Barr and federal prison officials of using his return to prison as a way to stop the publication of the book, which, court papers say, paints the president as a racist.

“The government cannot imprison Michael Cohen for writing a book about President Trump,” said Ben Wizner, director of the A.C.L.U.’s Speech, Privacy and Technology Project.

The Justice Department did not respond to requests for comment. The Bureau of Prisons said in a statement that it would not comment on pending litigation or legal proceedings.

The judge, Alvin K. Hellerstein, scheduled a hearing for Thursday.

This latest twist in Mr. Cohen’s long-running saga began in May when he was allowed to go home from a minimum-security prison camp in Otisville, N.Y., about 75 miles northwest of New York City, as part of an effort by the Bureau of Prisons to curb the spread of coronavirus behind bars. He had expected to serve the rest of his term in home confinement.

But federal officials returned him to prison on July 9 after they claimed that he refused to sign an agreement promising, in part, that he would not publish a book while still serving his time.

In an affidavit filed with his suit, Mr. Cohen, 53, argued that he never, in fact, refused to sign the agreement, but merely had his lawyer ask a few questions about what it required. “I was shocked,” he wrote, “when three U.S. Marshals later arrived with handcuffs and shackles to take me into custody.”

Mr. Cohen also said that he never hid the fact that he was writing a book about Mr. Trump, noting that he spent his mornings working on the manuscript “in plain sight” in the prison’s law library, and also discussed his project with prison officials, staff members and other inmates.

The book, he said, was tentatively titled “Disloyal: The True Story of Michael Cohen, Former Personal Attorney to President Donald J. Trump.”

According to his lawsuit, the book will give a glimpse into Mr. Cohen’s “firsthand experiences with Mr. Trump” and offer “graphic details about the president’s behavior behind closed doors.”

“The narrative describes pointedly certain anti-Semitic remarks against prominent Jewish people and virulently racist remarks against such Black leaders as President Barack Obama and Nelson Mandela,” the lawsuit says.

One of Mr. Cohen’s private lawyers, E. Danya Perry, said in court papers that she had asked federal prosecutors who had handled Mr. Cohen’s case to intervene on his behalf and urge the Bureau of Prisons to give him a second chance to be transferred to home confinement.

But, she said, when the prosecutors responded that the decision was up to prison officials and they could not say when it would be made, Mr. Cohen’s legal team opted to go to court. A spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan declined to comment.

A legal bulldog who once bragged he would take a bullet for Mr. Trump, Mr. Cohen pleaded guilty in 2018 to campaign finance violations and other crimes connected to a scheme to pay hush money to two women — a former adult film actress and a former Playboy model — who claimed they had had affairs with Mr. Trump before he was president.

In his guilty plea, he pointed the finger at the president, telling the court that Mr. Trump had directed him to arrange the hush money payments for the purpose of influencing the 2016 election. Mr. Trump has denied the allegations.

Mr. Cohen’s lawyers argued in the new lawsuit that his project was only the latest book critical of the president that Mr. Trump and his allies have sought to keep from being published.

In June, the Justice Department asked a judge to delay the release of “The Room Where it Happened,” a memoir by John R. Bolton, the former national security adviser who, among other things, confirmed accusations at the heart of the Democratic impeachment case over the president’s dealings with Ukraine. The judge ultimately denied the request.

On the same day that Mr. Bolton’s book was published, Mr. Trump’s younger brother, Robert S. Trump, filed a suit seeking to stop the publication of a family tell-all written by their niece, Mary L. Trump.

After a few weeks of whirlwind litigation, the judge in that case sided with Ms. Trump, allowing her to publish her memoir, which accused Mr. Trump of embracing cheating “as a way of life” and of paying someone to take his college entrance exams.

When Mr. Cohen was sent back to prison, he was immediately placed in solitary confinement. Locked down for 23 hours a day without access to a computer, he wrote in his affidavit, he has been unable to edit his manuscript.

“Given my hope to communicate my impressions, ideas, and political thoughts through my book in September 2020, in advance of the presidential elections,” he added, “this time is a critical juncture.”
So yeah, the Fuhrer is literally imprisoning and torturing dissidents for exercising their First Amendment rights.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by madd0ct0r »

Well. The orangw idiot said it out loud.

"Delay election?"

BBC:

"Donald Trump has suggested November's presidential election be postponed, saying increased postal voting could lead to fraud and inaccurate results.

He floated a delay until people could "properly, securely and safely" vote.

There is little evidence to support Mr Trump's claims but he has long railed against mail-in voting which he has said would be susceptible to fraud.

US states want to make postal voting easier due to public health concerns over the coronavirus pandemic.

Under the US constitution, Mr Trump does not have the authority to postpone the election himself. Any delay would have to be approved by Congress. The president does not have direct power over the two houses of Congress.
...
His tweet could also be an attempt to divert attention away from the truly dismal second-quarter economic numbers just released. He's been relying on a financial turnaround to breathe life into his re-election campaign, and instead the outlook appears exceedingly gloomy.

US economy suffers sharpest contraction in decades
Whatever the reason, tweeting about an election delay is not the move of a candidate confident of victory - and could be a sign of more desperate moves to come."


That's the BBC. The staid old lady of news.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Raw Shark »

Business Insider wrote:
Top Republicans including Mitch McConnell forcefully rebuke Trump's suggestion to delay the 2020 election
Grace Panetta
1 hour ago
Donald Trump
President Donald Trump pauses during a coronavirus disease (COVID-19) news briefing at the White House in Washington, DC, July 23, 2020. Kevin Lamarque/Reuters

High-level Republicans including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell strongly rebuked President Trump's suggestion that the 2020 election should be "delayed."
After months of falsely claiming that mail voting is inherently "corrupt" and "rigged," Trump on Thursday questioned in a tweet whether the election should be postponed until in-person voting is safer.
McConnell told WNKTV reporter and anchor Max Wintiz that he believes the election date is "set in stone" in an interview set to air Thursday evening.
Other top Republicans including Sens. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and at least two GOP governors also strongly refuted the notion of postponing the election.
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Top Republicans including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell strongly rebuked and bat down President Donald Trump's suggestion that the 2020 election should be "delayed" on Thursday.

McConnell told WNKTV reporter and anchor Max Wintiz that he believes the election date is "set in stone" and noted that the US has held elections during past crises, in an interview set to air this evening.

Trump, who for months has made inaccurate claims that mail voting is inherently fraudulent and corrupt, falsely claimed that the United States has "universal mail-in voting" and explicitly questioned whether the 2020 presidential election should be delayed until America can "safely vote."

"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history," Trump said. "It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???"

Trump cannot, however, unilaterally cancel or postpone the November 3 general election, by executive order, under the parameters of a national emergency or disaster declaration, or even if he declared martial law.

In 1845, Congress set the date on which states must appoint their electors to the electoral college — which today they do by holding elections — to be the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

Trump's remarks were immediately panned by many top Republicans interviewed by CNN. US Senators including Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, and Sen. Mitt Romney of Utah —who represents a state where all registered voters are sent a mail ballot — said they disagreed with Trump and believed the election should go on as scheduled.

McConnell's top Republican counterpart in the House, Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy told CNN that "Never in the history of federal elections have we ever not held an election and we should go forward with our election."

Rep. Rodney Davis of Illinois, the ranking member of the House Administration Committee, which has jurisdiction over federal elections, tweeted: "Congress sets the election date, and it should not be changed. It will be held on November 3rd, as planned and required by law."

At the state level, Ohio's Republican Secretary of State and top election official Frank LaRose, New Hampshire's Republican Governor Chris Sununu, and Massachusetts Republican Governor Charlie Baker all strongly disputed Trump's suggestion to delay the election.

"Make no mistake: the election will happen in New Hampshire on November 3rd. End of story. Our voting system in NH is secure, safe, and reliable," Sununu wrote.



The process by which states appoint their electors to the electoral college is laid out both in Article II of the US Constitution, which requires states to appoint a number of electors equal to the number of their representatives in the US House and Senate "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct," and in Chapter 1 of Title 3 of the United States Code, which sets the timing of that appointment.

To change the date of the election, Congress would have to vote to alter Section 1 of the code, which stipulates: "the electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President."

Even if Trump tried to delay the election, it wouldn't benefit him. The 20th amendment to the Constitution stipulates that if the electoral college doesn't vote, Trump and VP Mike Pence's terms automatically expire on at noon on January 20, 2021.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by TimothyC »

Trump Might Try to Postpone the Election. That’s Unconstitutional.

He should be removed unless he relents.

By Steven G. Calabresi

Mr. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.

July 30, 2020, 4:03 p.m. ET

I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.

But I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election. Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist. But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.

Here is what President Trump tweeted:
With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???
8:46 AM · Jul 30, 2020
The nation has faced grave challenges before, just as it does today with the spread of the coronavirus. But it has never canceled or delayed a presidential election. Not in 1864, when President Abraham Lincoln was expected to lose and the South looked as if it might defeat the North. Not in 1932 in the depths of the Great Depression. Not in 1944 during World War II.

So we certainly should not even consider canceling this fall’s election because of the president’s concern about mail-in voting, which is likely to increase because of fears about Covid-19. It is up to each of the 50 states whether to allow universal mail-in voting and Article II of the Constitution explicitly gives the states total power over the selection of presidential electors.

Election Day was fixed by a federal law passed in 1845, and the Constitution itself in the 20th Amendment specifies that the newly elected Congress meet at noon on Jan. 3, 2021, and that the terms of the president and vice president end at noon on Jan. 20, 2021. If no newly elected president is available, the speaker of the House of Representatives becomes acting president.

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.Election Day was fixed by a federal law passed in 1845, and the Constitution itself in the 20th Amendment specifies that the newly elected Congress meet at noon on Jan. 3, 2021, and that the terms of the president and vice president end at noon on Jan. 20, 2021. If no newly elected president is available, the speaker of the House of Representatives becomes acting president.

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.
Seriously, ████ The President.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

If there is no election in November (or a hopelessly rigged or obstructed one), then there must be a revolution in December. Its as simple as that.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Knife »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-07-30 08:45pm If there is no election in November (or a hopelessly rigged or obstructed one), then there must be a revolution in December. Its as simple as that.
'bout time you made some sense.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm not sure how that post is significantly different from my previously stated positions on revolution. I believe in democracy, and I oppose the needless loss of life. Without these views, resisting would seem almost pointless to me, because what would we be fighting for? My view, therefore, is that we should attempt the electoral and legal route while it is an option. If elections were cancelled or postponed (successfully cancelled or postponed, not Trump trying and then getting quickly slapped down by the courts, Congress, and state governments), then the conventional political route would, rather self-evidently, be closed.

I also believe that we should try non-violent forms of revolution as much as possible (though I have no illusions about the Trumpers' willingness to respect the right to peaceful protest, especially after recent weeks), and I believe that IF we do reach a point where we must engage in violent revolution, then it should be done in a fashion that gives it the greatest possible chance of success. A successful revolution requires more than a few, or a few thousand, socialists or anarchists who want to vent their rage and despair through destruction. It requires the thing that those people generally consider anathema: establishment support- specifically military support. The most likely way that we get that, in my view, is if Trump has crossed a clear line whereby he is no longer the lawful President, and the military is no longer bound by their oaths to defend him.

So, endorsing immediate revolution if and only if elections are cancelled is the logical conclusion of my position- because that's the point where Trump has crossed the final line between bad President and Dictator, in a way that should be obvious to everyone, thereby simultaneously foreclosing conventional political solutions, and providing the clearest possible Just Cause by which to rally support for his overthrow, one that any soldier who took their oaths seriously would be bound to respect.

Trump cancelling the elections is THE time to revolt, if there is any such time.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin »

Question: Would it be accurate to describe your idea of what this revolution would look like as something along the lines of "Hold lots of protests, riots and strikes and hope that most of the military decides to side with us?"

Because that doesn't sound like a revolution. It sounds like doing disruptive things and hoping the military resolves the situation.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Ralin wrote: 2020-07-31 04:40am Question: Would it be accurate to describe your idea of what this revolution would look like as something along the lines of "Hold lots of protests, riots and strikes and hope that most of the military decides to side with us?"

Because that doesn't sound like a revolution. It sounds like doing disruptive things and hoping the military resolves the situation.
There is no one single way that a revolution occurs. What the most effective strategy is depends on the situation, and as this is, for now at least, a hypothetical, this is an impossible question to fully answer.

However, any revolution, violent or non-violent, will require widespread support in order to succeed. And yes, it will require a level of military support. If you honestly believe a relatively small, disorganized force of socialists or anarchists with rifles and molotov cocktails can beat the US military, then you're a lunatic, and a danger to any cause that you're a part of.

Honestly, people like you strike me as either a) more interested in thinly-veiled tough talk about killing Republicans to vent your rage or show your "commitment" to the cause rather than whether these tactics would actually work, or b) in some cases, deliberately trying to incite destructive but ultimately futile acts because your goal is not to save American and its people, but to hasten our destruction.

Given your past posts, I suspect you fall more in the latter category.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I will add that the above is probably more response than your post deserves, given that your "question" was clearly a rhetorical one, not meant to engage with my ideas or clarify what they are, but to put your existing dismissive interpretation of me and my views in my mouth, to put me on the defensive, and possibly to bait me into a hostile response that would reflect poorly on me. Because I actually want to STOP Trump, and craft my positions accordingly, rather than just spill blood now, regardless of whether it accomplishes a fucking thing.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin »

So, is that a yes or a no?
What the most effective strategy is depends on the situation, and as this is, for now at least, a hypothetical, this is an impossible question to fully answer.
Seriously, is that an accurate description of how you expect it to go down or not? This isn't a complicated question.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

On the contrary, it is an exceedingly complex question, for anyone who isn't an utter moron or a shameless liar.

As anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows, there are multiple possible directions things could develop over the next several months. We could see Trump appearing to "legitimately" win due to voter supression, with resulting protests and rioting from the Left, met by a crackdown by Trump. We could see Trump losing before faithless Electors, perhaps using the excuse of "illegal voter fraud", trying to flip it to Trump. We could see Trump clearly losing, and him squatting in the White House and refusing to leave. We could see Trump declaring the election cancelled, some states going along with it and others not, which may or may not create a situation where it is practically impossible for Biden to reach 270 on election day. Each of these situations could develop in different ways, and would require different responses. Some would likely end (we hope) with the military intervening to remove Trump. How likely that is likely depends in large part on the extent to which he can maintain a veneer of legal legitimacy as President, ie how convincing his win or "win" is, and whether the courts and Congress stand by him. Or at least that is my best guess.

There is one thing of which I am fairly convinced: Trump will not be removed, in the forseeable future, in any scenario where the military is decisively on his side (ie, in which the military regards him as the lawful PotUS).

That is the only answer I will give. I've played this game before, where someone pompously demands that I answer a "question" which they know is impossible to answer, is irrelevant to my point, or which they will continue shifting the goalposts on, demanding ever more specific answers so that they can derail the thread and "call me out" when I fail to answer their demands. I'm not interested in playing that game again.

If you believe you can convincingly answer how events are likely to unfold over the next several months, though, by all means, enlighten us. I'd be delighted to meet the world's first verified psychic.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-07-31 09:45am On the contrary, it is an exceedingly complex question, for anyone who isn't an utter moron or a shameless liar.

As anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows, there are multiple possible directions things could develop over the next several months. We could see Trump appearing to "legitimately" win due to voter supression, with resulting protests and rioting from the Left, met by a crackdown by Trump. We could see Trump losing before faithless Electors, perhaps using the excuse of "illegal voter fraud", trying to flip it to Trump. We could see Trump clearly losing, and him squatting in the White House and refusing to leave. We could see Trump declaring the election cancelled, some states going along with it and others not, which may or may not create a situation where it is practically impossible for Biden to reach 270 on election day. Each of these situations could develop in different ways, and would require different responses. Some would likely end (we hope) with the military intervening to remove Trump. How likely that is likely depends in large part on the extent to which he can maintain a veneer of legal legitimacy as President, ie how convincing his win or "win" is, and whether the courts and Congress stand by him. Or at least that is my best guess.
Rom. Put the bong down. You're sounding paranoid. Whether you expect the revolution you just said needs to happen if Trump cancels the election to resemble what I described is not a complicated situation and does not require you to prognosticate all possible outcomes. Hell, you just threw out two or three completely different scenarios from that one for no apparent reason. Try to focus here.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Enigma »

Ralin wrote: 2020-07-31 09:59am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-07-31 09:45am On the contrary, it is an exceedingly complex question, for anyone who isn't an utter moron or a shameless liar.

As anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows, there are multiple possible directions things could develop over the next several months. We could see Trump appearing to "legitimately" win due to voter supression, with resulting protests and rioting from the Left, met by a crackdown by Trump. We could see Trump losing before faithless Electors, perhaps using the excuse of "illegal voter fraud", trying to flip it to Trump. We could see Trump clearly losing, and him squatting in the White House and refusing to leave. We could see Trump declaring the election cancelled, some states going along with it and others not, which may or may not create a situation where it is practically impossible for Biden to reach 270 on election day. Each of these situations could develop in different ways, and would require different responses. Some would likely end (we hope) with the military intervening to remove Trump. How likely that is likely depends in large part on the extent to which he can maintain a veneer of legal legitimacy as President, ie how convincing his win or "win" is, and whether the courts and Congress stand by him. Or at least that is my best guess.
Rom. Put the bong down. You're sounding paranoid. Whether you expect the revolution you just said needs to happen if Trump cancels the election to resemble what I described is not a complicated situation and does not require you to prognosticate all possible outcomes. Hell, you just threw out two or three completely different scenarios from that one for no apparent reason. Try to focus here.
He is paranoid. From the news articles I'm seeing, Republicans in Congress won't approve any delays to the elections. To me I'm noticing more Republicans distancing themselves from Trump. Personally, I believe the Republicans are preparing for a loss. That's my two pesos.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by ray245 »

If election is delayed past Jan, the Democrats will have full control of the White House, Congress and the Senate, as the leader of the Senate ( who will be a Democrat) will become the President.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Elheru Aran »

ray245 wrote: 2020-07-31 12:27pm If election is delayed past Jan, the Democrats will have full control of the White House, Congress and the Senate, as the leader of the Senate ( who will be a Democrat) will become the President.
Speaker of the House of Representatives, not Senate Majority Leader.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by ray245 »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2020-07-31 12:36pm
ray245 wrote: 2020-07-31 12:27pm If election is delayed past Jan, the Democrats will have full control of the White House, Congress and the Senate, as the leader of the Senate ( who will be a Democrat) will become the President.
Speaker of the House of Representatives, not Senate Majority Leader.
Nancy Pelosi is up for re-election as well. So if the election is delayed, she will lose her seat.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

If the entire election were cancelled (extremely unlikely, but theoretically), then under the Constitution, there would BE NO House in the New Year, as every House term (and a third of the Senate) would have expired their terms. In that event, succession would pass to the President Pro Tempore of the Senate (the oldest serving member of the majority party). Right now that's a Republican, Chuck Grassley, but if all the seats up for reelection this November were allowed to expire with no new Senators being elected, control would shift to the Democrats, and the lawful President (in the unlikely event that anyone was still following the law in such an outlandish situation) would be Democratic Senator Patrick Lehey of Vermont.

This video (by an actual DC lawyer) breaks it down: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yQLbNekBU1A
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Enigma wrote: 2020-07-31 11:08am
Ralin wrote: 2020-07-31 09:59am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-07-31 09:45am On the contrary, it is an exceedingly complex question, for anyone who isn't an utter moron or a shameless liar.

As anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows, there are multiple possible directions things could develop over the next several months. We could see Trump appearing to "legitimately" win due to voter supression, with resulting protests and rioting from the Left, met by a crackdown by Trump. We could see Trump losing before faithless Electors, perhaps using the excuse of "illegal voter fraud", trying to flip it to Trump. We could see Trump clearly losing, and him squatting in the White House and refusing to leave. We could see Trump declaring the election cancelled, some states going along with it and others not, which may or may not create a situation where it is practically impossible for Biden to reach 270 on election day. Each of these situations could develop in different ways, and would require different responses. Some would likely end (we hope) with the military intervening to remove Trump. How likely that is likely depends in large part on the extent to which he can maintain a veneer of legal legitimacy as President, ie how convincing his win or "win" is, and whether the courts and Congress stand by him. Or at least that is my best guess.
Rom. Put the bong down. You're sounding paranoid. Whether you expect the revolution you just said needs to happen if Trump cancels the election to resemble what I described is not a complicated situation and does not require you to prognosticate all possible outcomes. Hell, you just threw out two or three completely different scenarios from that one for no apparent reason. Try to focus here.
He is paranoid. From the news articles I'm seeing, Republicans in Congress won't approve any delays to the elections. To me I'm noticing more Republicans distancing themselves from Trump. Personally, I believe the Republicans are preparing for a loss. That's my two pesos.
I truely hope so, but Trump has taught me to expect the worst, even if I hope for the best.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin »

It's basically a 2nd edition D&D reaction roll whether he denies the election results or fucks off to Mar-A-Lago in a snit and never sets foot in the White House again for the rest of his term.

Though personally I'm inclined to bet on him taking the path of least resistance.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

New court documents indicate that the Trump Organization is under investigation not only for campaign finance violations (the Cohen hush money payments) but for insurance and bank fraud:

https://nbcnews.com/politics/white-hous ... s-n1235658
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Pretty much says it all:

https://salon.com/2020/08/04/there-was- ... all-along/
Do you remember "Trump Derangement Syndrome?"

It was a cute phrase that likely first appeared in 2015, deployed by prominent voices across the political spectrum to demean, mock, reject, dismiss and deflect the warnings that Donald Trump was a fascist, an authoritarian and a white supremacist, not to mention a vile and dangerous human being with apparent mental pathologies who posed a massive threat to American democracy.

Such truth-telling patriots were called "hysterical" and "alarmist," or told they were "out of touch" and overly "bitter" about Hillary Clinton's defeat thanks to the antiquated mechanism of the Electoral College and Russian interference. Those who first raised the alarm about Trumpism as a new version of fascism were also assured that "the institutions were strong" and fascism could never take hold in America — and most certainly not in the form of a proudly ignorant wrestling-heel wannabe and reality-TV huckster.

When Trump won the presidential election in 2016, there were some on the left eager to dance on Hillary Clinton's grave. A few even gave Trump the totally unearned benefit of the doubt: He claimed to oppose globalization, neoliberalism and "endless war," and to speak for the "white working class".

Centrist Democrats and the so-called mainstream American news media also rejected the existential threat to democracy that Trump represented. They convinced themselves, over and over, that the supposed power and gravity of the office would normalize and mature him. He was a "businessman" and a "pragmatist" eager to make deals, not an ideologue — so why worry? Trump was "brash" and "unconventional," but America's political institutions were strong.

The stenographers of current events and the other hope-peddlers, with their horse-race journalism, false equivalence "both-sides-ism" and obsession with meaningless controversies would not let themselves see the truth of Trump's danger or that of his neo-fascist movement. To admit the truth about Trump would mean that the old habits of writing and thinking about American politics are obsolete. Moreover, such an admission would demand speaking truth to power in a way that many members of the mainstream news media, specifically, are too afraid to, for both professional and personal reasons.

Republicans and other members of the Trump movement used "Trump Derangement Syndrome" to bully their critics into silence. The American right celebrated drinking "liberal tears" and loved the way Trump's victory had made Democrats and so-called progressives go "crazy."

Trump Derangement Syndrome is weaponized language in the same vein as the myth of the "liberal media." Both lies put Democrats and the mainstream news media on the defense. While the American right and the Republican Party (and now Trump's neo-fascist movement) drag the issue-space further and further to the right — and have done so for decades — the "liberal media" tries to find an imaginary balance by presenting right-wing extremism as somehow a "reasonable" alternative point of view.

Trump Derangement Syndrome was also a smokescreen for Donald Trump's wild success in advancing the agenda of the plutocrats, gangster capitalists, Christian nationalists and "Dominionists" — as well as overt white supremacists — in destroying the very idea of government itself as well as American multiracial democracy.

Of course, it was not Donald Trump's most vocal critics who were "deranged" but his followers, enablers and allies. As I explained in January 2017, shortly before his inauguration:

It is not those who oppose Trump who are deranged, but rather those voters who convinced themselves that a plutocrat authoritarian reality TV star con man and professional wrestler wannabe with no experience in government at any level was qualified to be president of the United States.

This is America's great national derangement. Those who stand against and oppose Donald Trump are patriots who are trying to return the country to sanity.

Now, some three months away from another Election Day, Donald Trump has finally arrived at the moment which those of us who were slurred as "hysterical" and "alarmist" have warned about for more than five years.

Last Thursday, Trump issued this now-infamous tweet:

With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???

That same afternoon, when questioned about Trump's threats to interfere with the 2020 election, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the U.S. Senate: "In the end, the Department of Justice and others will make that legal determination." This is not true. The Department of Justice and the president possess no legitimate authority to delay or cancel a federal election.

Later in the day, Trump continued to work from the authoritarian's playbook, attempting to pivot away from his earlier statements. During a White House press event, Trump said:

Do I want to see a date change? No. But I don't want to see a crooked election.

What will happen in November – it's a mess. I want a result much more than you... I don't want to be waiting around for weeks and months.

This is a familiar strategy in which the authoritarian challenges norms and boundaries by floating trial balloons and then pretends to change his mind as a way to make the heretofore-unthinkable into something acceptable.

Trump's most recent threats are but another crescendo in he and his servants' efforts to subvert and eventually overturn secular multiracial democracy and the rule of law in America.

Only weeks ago Trump began deploying his own personal secret police force, hoping to enforce his will by suppressing dissent and free speech in Democratic-led cities all over the United States. The events in Portland, Oregon, are but a prelude to Trump's national terrordome.

Trump's own personal secret police force along with his civilian "watchdogs," may well be used to intimidate Democratic voters on Election Day and beyond. Trump has repeatedly asked hostile foreign countries to interfere in the 2020 presidential election on his behalf. He was impeached for doing just that with his attempt to blackmail the government of Ukraine to launch a phony investigation of Joe Biden.

Trump continues to threaten senior Democratic leaders, including Biden, Barack Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and others with treason charges, potential imprisonment and perhaps even execution. Former national security adviser John Bolton's recent book includes details of Trump's lurid fantasies about having journalists killed. According to Bolton, Trump supports imprisoning his "enemies" in concentration camps — something he is already doing with brown and Black migrants and refugees from Latin America, the Caribbean and other parts of the nonwhite world.

Donald Trump, has repeated his threats, ever since the 2016 campaign, that he will not respect the will of the American people if he loses a presidential election.

In sum, Donald Trump is not pretending. None of this is a game. He is a neo-fascist. Such observations and warnings are not hysterical. They are plain observations based on a consensus of the available facts.

As historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat explained in a 2017 essay at The Washington Post:

The strongman knows that it starts with words. He uses them early on to test out his plans to expand and personalize executive power on political elites, the press and the public, watching their reactions as they arrange into the timeless categories of allies, enemies and those who help him by remaining silent. Some say the strongman is all bluster, but he takes words seriously, including the issue of which ones should be banned.

Now what to do?

In a perfect and just world, the hope peddlers, professional centrists, stenographers of current events and others who maintain the boundaries of approved public discourse in America would go to the public square, prostrate themselves before the world and then beg forgiveness for how they, for years and by various means, empowered Donald Trump.

That will not happen. Instead, such voices will proclaim that they were sounding the alarm about Donald Trump years ago and are the real vanguard defenders of American democracy. In reality, such voices were enablers, far behind the truth if not actively running away it. They are now trying to position themselves on the correct side of history because their shame and failure to protect America from Donald Trump and his neo-fascist movement are so great.

In the weeks remaining before Election Day — which will certainly not be "free and fair" and when Trump's machinations will be at their most extreme — the mainstream news media and the American people must internalize the fact that the rule of law and the U.S. Constitution mean little for Trump and his regime.

Hopeful claims — or delusions — that the Constitution and state laws dictate the rules of Election Day must be viewed with extreme cynicism. Trump and his enforcers are not restrained by such arcane conventions.

If there is indeed an election on Nov. 3, Americans most vote against Trump in overwhelming numbers in order to force him to step down. Unless Donald Trump is convincingly vanquished at the polls, he will find some way to stay in office.

If Donald Trump and Attorney General William Barr try to cancel the presidential election or interfere with it in any other way, Americans must take to the streets and engage in corporeal politics — including a national strike and other plans to disrupt day-to-day life and "business as usual" — on a scale so large that they make the George Floyd people's uprising look like a PTA meeting.

Ultimately, those of us who warned the American people for years, sometimes on a daily basis, about this Mad King and would-be tyrant take no joy from saying, We told you so. There is no satisfaction in being correct about such a horrible thing.

On this point, Jared Yates Sexton, author of "American Rule: How a Nation Conquered the World But Failed Its People," wrote last Thursday on Twitter:

Those of us warning that Trump is an authoritarian capable of destroying democracy haven't been doing it for profit or attention or out of unwarranted alarmism. None of this is hard to predict. They don't hide it at all. Stop expecting everything to be fine because "America."

To watch American democracy, fall so ill so fast, and now to be on the verge of collapse — when such a thing could have been so easily prevented — is a world historical tragedy.


CHAUNCEY DEVEGA
Chauncey DeVega is a politics staff writer for Salon. His essays can also be found at Chaunceydevega.com. He also hosts a weekly podcast, The Chauncey DeVega Show. Chauncey can be followed on Twitter and Facebook.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

Post by loomer »

White House memo calls for ban on federal agencies conducting training on "critical race theory," "white privilege" with taxpayer dollars

President Trump is ordering federal agencies to stop funding training on topics including "critical race theory" and "white privilege" with taxpayer dollars, according to a memorandum from the Office of Management and Budget Director Russell Vought that was released on Friday.

"It has come to the President's attention that Executive Branch agencies have spent millions of taxpayer dollars to date 'training' government workers to believe divisive, anti-American propaganda," Vought wrote in a letter to the heads of executive departments and agencies.

Citing press reports that agencies have conducted training where employees are told that "virtually all white people contribute to racism" or that racism is "embedded in the belief that America is the land of opportunity," Vought said trainings of that nature "run counter to the fundamental beliefs for which our nation has stood since its inception."

In the letter, Vought told the agency heads to identify contracts or other spending related to training on "critical race theory," "white privilege," "or any other training or propaganda effort that teaches or suggests either (1) that the United States is an inherently racist or evil country or (2) that any race or ethnicity is inherently racist or evil."

He further instructed the leaders to find ways to cancel the contracts and move federal dollars away from "these un-American propaganda training sessions."
Source

Uh-oh! Trump's scared of critical race theory now. The odds on anyone involved in this memo having the slightest concept of what critical race theory actually entails are, of course, zero.
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