Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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loomer
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Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by loomer »

Jamaica set to seek compensation from Britain over slave trade



LONDON — Jamaica is preparing to request compensation from Britain over its role in the transatlantic slave trade in the 17th and 18th centuries — when at least 600,000 Africans were shipped to the Caribbean as enslaved people — Jamaican officials told Reuters.

Jamaica long served as a key node in a slave trade network that spanned continents, driven by Spain and then Britain.

The country, a former British colony independent since 1962, is set to seek reparations in a petition submitted to Britain’s Queen Elizabeth II.

Olivia Grange, Jamaica’s minister of sports, youth and culture, told Reuters her government would seek “reparatory justice in all forms” to “repair the damages that our ancestors experienced.”

“Our African ancestors were forcibly removed from their home and suffered unparalleled atrocities in Africa to carry out forced labor to the benefit of the British Empire,” she said, but did not divulge the exact sum to be sought.

The petition, Reuters reported, is connected to a motion filed by Jamaican lawmaker Mike Henry to seek more than $10 billion, his estimate of how much enslavers received in compensation after Britain abolished slavery, freeing an estimated 800,000 enslaved Black people in 1834. Britain made those disbursements after taking out a mammoth loan, the interest on which it finished paying only in 2015.

Enslaved people transported to the Caribbean were forced to work in dire conditions on sugar and crop plantations, where deadly diseases were rife. As many as 20 million African men, women and children were enslaved during this period, according to estimates.

Many plantation owners resided in England, with established slave-based industries across the Caribbean, funneling wealth to the British Empire.

“I have fought against this all my life, against chattel slavery which has dehumanized human life,” Henry told Reuters.

The Jamaican government did not immediately respond to a request to comment on the petition.

Like many countries that were once part of the British Empire, Jamaica is part of the Commonwealth, an association of nations, which Elizabeth heads.

In the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement that swept much of the world last summer, many countries have seen renewed impetus to confront their own dark and violent histories of racism and inequality.

In Britain, as in the United States, debates have unfolded about how the history of slavery is taught in schools.

In the English city of Bristol, which was once at the heart of mass sugar importations, a statue of British politician Edward Colston was toppled during protests that erupted following the death of George Floyd last year. Colston was responsible for enslaving tens of thousands of people.

Demonstrators chanting “Black lives matter” yanked the monument from its plinth before dumping it into the brown waters of a nearby harbor. It was later fished out by rescue teams and placed on display at a nearby museum, which asked members of the public what should be done with the statue.

This year, Germany acknowledged that during its occupation of what is now Namibia, it was responsible for colonial genocide. The government promised roughly $1.3 billion in aid for the country, adding that the sum would serve as a “gesture of recognition for immeasurable suffering.”

Haiti also pushed to be paid in compensation for the widespread suffering caused by slavery in the colonial era. Haitian officials said that France owed the country billions of dollars.
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Naturally, there will be screeching from fuckwits about this, but it is a simple fact that the wealth of empire was gleaned from exploitation and slavery. We do not typically allow thieves to keep the proceeds of their thefts, and I see no reason we should allow it simply because they are a state and not an individual.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Crazedwraith »

Seeing as the UK is currently cutting foreign aid, I can't see them agreeing to this, regardless of it's moral justification (or lack thereof depending on your opinion).
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

At this point, it's impossible to “repair the damages that their ancestors experienced". Their ancestors are dead. So, using that as a justification is kinda flimsy. (Otherwise, since I have Scottish ancestors, I'm going after them for how William Longshanks treated the Scottish clans)

Any justification based on conditions their descendants find themselves in is like saying 'we/they suck'.

However, it can be argued that the UK inherited a moral obligation to do something to apologize to the descendants of the people they enslaved. They benefited from a immoral and disgusting practice, after all.

Now, the counter argument for that is this - the slave markets and practices that allowed the Spanish and then British to obtain slaves were already very established by the time they started buying up slaves for transport to the colonies. Europeans didn't have to go hunting for slaves. West Africans were ready to sell them to the Europeans. Slavery was already a well established way of life in West Africa.

Heck, it can be argued that the descendants of the slaves transported from Africa to the Americas actually have better lives then those that were not. (Please note - I do not subscribe to that argument.)

So, the question becomes, how MUCH of a moral obligation does the British government have?

How many slaves were actually shipped by the British Government, vs private individuals, vs business?

Unfortunately, that's something we're unlikely ever going to know. You can also argue that since the British government allowed it, they share responsibility with private individuals/businesses.

So, the question gets back to - how much of a moral obligation does the British Government have?

That, we might actually qualify, if records exist on whom was brought to Jamica as part of the Atlantic Slave Trade. In other words, how many people.
Combine that with birth records, you actually can determine the obligation.

My suggestion, if those records exist, would be as follows -
For each slave, determine how old they were when they were brought to Jamica. If you have a age range, go with the lowest date (i.e 10 - 12 years old, go with 10)
What was the average wage for a worker, per day, during their entire time of enslavement.
i.e 1/4 of a Galleon per day.


Figure out what they'd have been paid each week, double it, and add interest until 2021.
Then find their descendents, and split it up amongst them.

It's what they'd have been paid, doubled, plus interest, without anything taken off they could have spent.

Divide that up amongst any descendants that individual has, that have remained in Jamacia.



Now, that all being said.... I can't see anyone, anywhere actually agreed to pay for the actions of their ancestors. It opens to much of a Pandora's box of potential lawsuits and charges based on historical actions taken by people long dead, from a different time period and moral framework.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by loomer »

I'm just going to strongly urge people to actually spend five fucking minutes reading up on the issue before they comment.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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While I agree there was a monstrous injustice perpetrated that continues to impact people generations later I am not hopeful that there will be any compensation or justice created. But there is merit in trying and I wish them the best.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Darth Yan »

Britain definitely needs to pay some form of reparations but the nature of said reparations is complicated by the difficulties Solauren mentioned
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

There is also the added issue of what to do in the cases of slaves that have no descendants/no descendants come forward.

Personally, I'd still calculate the money owed to them, and give that to the Jamican government. While descendant compensation would go directly to the descendants in whatever form they wanted (bank transfer, payment for their own house, etc), non-inherited compensation should go to the government to hopefully make everyone's lives better.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by loomer »

Have you considered, I don't know, reading the CARICOM plan?
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

loomer wrote: 2021-08-02 09:23am Have you considered, I don't know, reading the CARICOM plan?
Got a link to it? I tried to google, but it seems my google-fu skills are weak today.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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Solauren wrote: 2021-08-02 01:00pmGot a link to it? I tried to google, but it seems my google-fu skills are weak today.
https://caricom.org/

That links to the organization's webpage.

https://caricom.org/documents/strategic ... 2015-2019/

I think this might be the plan loomer was talking about, but I'm not entirely sure.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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Rather extensive document...
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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Solauren wrote: 2021-08-02 09:22pm Rather extensive document...
It should be. These are a series of resource-poor island nations faced with a crisis of rising sea levels and a dependence on tourism and financial services for the vast majority of their income. If they don't have their shit together millions of people are going to get fucked hard, and even with this planning, they're all still going to get pretty roundly fucked by climate change.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Elheru Aran »

I can almost see, if some kind of international case was ever made in the UN or the Hague or whatever, GB just prolonging the case as much as possible until the issue becomes moot by Jamaica barely existing anymore thanks to climate change and all the people being evacuated elsewhere... something cold-blooded like that.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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The gest of the document (I admit, after a bit, it started to 'run together') seems to be modernization and improvement of infrastructure, expanding social programs and the justice system, while still protecting the environment/preparing for the effects of Climate change. That should also improve the quality of life for just about everyone.

Noble goals, and goals I support.

I'll admit, my idea is focused more on the individuals that had enslaved ancestor(s), then on national level impact of the legacy of slavery.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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Jub wrote: 2021-08-02 09:44pm If they don't have their shit together millions of people are going to get fucked hard, and even with this planning, they're all still going to get pretty roundly fucked by climate change.
We're all going to get fucked by climate change to one level or another. I'll admit, those on tropical islands are going to get it far worse then someone as, on the North side of the US border.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2021-08-02 09:48pm I can almost see, if some kind of international case was ever made in the UN or the Hague or whatever, GB just prolonging the case as much as possible until the issue becomes moot by Jamaica barely existing anymore thanks to climate change and all the people being evacuated elsewhere... something cold-blooded like that.
Very likely based on GB's past, economic status, and who's in charge right now.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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Solauren wrote: 2021-08-02 09:22pm Rather extensive document...
Yes. And the reason I directed you to it is because most of what you've said is either dealt with in it, or in commentaries on it. Rather than reinvent the wheel with objections that don't actually work (and invoke the claim that descendants of enslaved African people have it better than they would otherwise - and no, you can't weasel out with 'I said I didn't agree with it', because you still dragged it into the conversation), spending five minutes getting to grips with what's already been discussed enables the possibility of actual meaningful dialogue.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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I brought up the "argument" of 'have it better' to dismiss it before anyone else did. The objections were put up for the same reason. Often, you have to drag something out, if only to throw it into the trash.

But thank you for the referral to the document. It shows how much consideration is being put into the situation, and what needs to be done. Anyone interested in this situation should read the meat of it over. (Like all government documents, it has pages of information at the start that can be skipped.)
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Bedlam »

Jub wrote: 2021-08-02 09:44pm
Solauren wrote: 2021-08-02 09:22pm Rather extensive document...
It should be. These are a series of resource-poor island nations faced with a crisis of rising sea levels and a dependence on tourism and financial services for the vast majority of their income. If they don't have their shit together millions of people are going to get fucked hard, and even with this planning, they're all still going to get pretty roundly fucked by climate change.
Are you talking about Jamaica or Britain here?
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Broomstick »

Well, Jamaica is going to get fucked first by climate change and sea levels, but I wouldn't rule out Britain....
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

Jamaica (and all tropical islands and coastal regions) are currently being hit with a combination of rising sea levels, more energetic storms, and of course, more temperature-extreme weather.

Britain has a comparatively lower rise in sea levels, their storms are not as energetic, and like everyone else, they're starting to experience the more temperature-extreme weather.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by gizmojumpjet »

The only reparations GB should offer these pathetic whiners is a one-way plane ticket to Africa.

Coach.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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gizmojumpjet wrote: 2021-08-04 10:25pm The only reparations GB should offer these pathetic whiners is a one-way plane ticket to Africa.

Coach.
Shut the fuck up.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

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gizmojumpjet wrote: 2021-08-04 10:25pm The only reparations GB should offer these pathetic whiners is a one-way plane ticket to Africa.

Coach.
Dude....no. The Slave trade did a lot of harm and the effects still linger. Even if it's impossible to meet every demand many can be and those SHOULD be given.
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Re: Jamaica latest to demand reparations from Britain for slave trade

Post by Solauren »

Take a look at Gizmojumpjet's posting history. He's just a long term troll that manages to stay below the radar by only posting (lately) an average of once every 3 - 4 months.
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