[Discussion]: "Senate, Calm Down."

[Coyote]

Another interesting note from a constituent who wishes to remain anonymous:

Speaking as another non-Senator, reading the threads in the Senate the last few months (I'm referring to the Tribun ban thread and the 6 Days War avatar thread) has been amusing/pathetic. It seems to me that the Senate is trying to assume the roles and responsibilities of the mods and supermods - if Durandal, SirNitram, or Mike himself want to ban or title somebody, let them do it. Seeing a new thread in the Senate every week for a titling or a ban makes me wonder why some of the Senators don't have something better to do.

The Senators need to remember that they have no actual role in the management and administration of the board, and your/their position is largely honorary and advisory.

Every so often I run across comments (sometimes even on other boards where people are familiar with SDN, or participate here) that lead me to believe that there is entirely too much eagerness by the Senate to pass resolutions, ban, title, etc. Like a pack of wolves looking for some meat.

I admit I may have jumped the gun in this manner with, say, coberst-- but at the same time I've always felt that we really should be Reservists, in a way, not full-time regular patrollers & enforcers of virtue. Call the Senate in case something is needed; otherwise, it really should be a little-used forum: a janitor's closet for occassional cleanup, not a regular boardroom for daily rule.

I invite feedback from all & sundry of the board: have we been overzealous? Should we relax, chill out, try to see the funny side of things a little more?

[Surlethe]

Yeah, let's all relax a bit. I know when the AFD joke shit hit the fan (<insert reflexive "fuck you, Mess" here>), we were all getting a bit wound up in our own importance, and several people had to step in and remind us that we're here by the grace of the Administration, not because we're big shit in and of ourselves. It's fun prancing around and pretending we count for something -- heaven knows I've done it, and probably had people laugh at me behind my back -- but at the end of the day, we are nothing more and nothing less than a big, fancy-shmancy advisory council. I think we'd all, myself included, do well to bear that in mind.

[Frank Hipper]

Durandal, SirNitram, or Mike himself want to ban or title somebody, let them do it.

Wait just a minute here!

Durandal, Nitram...ban?




Anyhoos, some of these recent threads adhere to the letter of the law, and discussions like these are definitely the parvenue of the Senate; but sometimes, a blind eye can be as conducive to domestic tranquility as much as vigilance.
With a vigorous doling out of discipline, and too often, you generate contempt and resentment.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Remember that actual voting threads can only be posted by Governors and above.

Discussion threads are something we can bring up, and I think we have an excellent reason for doing so:

Oftentimes, it seems quite possible that the mere fact that someone is being discussed in the Senate, is going to cause them to improve their behaviour, as it lets them know, quite openly, that what they are doing is controversial enough in regard to the rules to bring about debate.

In that regard, the Senate's deliberations, even when nothing comes from them, can encourage malefactors to improve their behaviour through the mere threat of potential action.

[SirNitram]

Durandal, SirNitram, or Mike himself want to ban or title somebody, let them do it.

Wait just a minute here!

Durandal, Nitram...ban?

Indeed; everyone will know when I have unilateral authority to ban, because of the number of people twisting in the Parting Shots forum.

Into serious matters, yea. It's getting a bit over the top in here. People are taking it just a wee bit too seriously.

[Dalton]

The Senators need to remember that they have no actual role in the management and administration of the board, and your/their position is largely honorary and advisory.

Actually that's somewhat inaccurate, as the Senate does have the power to decide board policy. That's why it was created. Having a discussion thread about an issue a Senator feels is important is a perfectly legitimate use of the forum. This is why the discussion part is important, because it's those threads that either lead to a Vote or a decision to close the issue at hand.

The Senate was not created as some sort of Good Ol' Boys club or something. It serves a real, actual purpose. If some members here feel that some of the discussion threads created here are frivolous, that is certainly their right, but until it comes to a vote all it is is a discussion. Discussion does not mean mandate.

[Spyder]

I'm in full agreement with the Dutchess and Dalton on this one.

Even with a vote thread, it still requires an admin to carry out if it succeeds and they're more then welcome to veto anything we come up with.

...We should totally start passing resolutions to give us more power. All aboard the corruption train!

[Coyote]

Got some feedback:

I mean this with all do respect, but yes, the Senate would do well to chill a bit and especially to grow some more humour. ...

The Mess still resents to a small degree the Senate's reaction to the AFD affair.

...However, I HIGHLY value the Senate's putting up discussion threads for trolls on the board for the warning value. Keep that up.

Overall, you guys would want to inject a more lighthearted flair in your proceedings.

And...

Good God in heaven, yes. I'm sure you all could find something better to do than carry on about Superman's precious avatar privileges for three pages, or quoting DRx and DRy like they're written on stone tablets, or whatever else y'all are doing to soak up bandwidth.

--Howedar

[Coyote]

Con't'd:

Since everybody seems to be sending PM's to you for non-Senator comments in this thread, I figure I'll keep on with that standard

What I remember most about the April Fools Day threads in the Senate, was the number of Senators screeching for bannings or titles, and completely up in arms about the Mess. It took somebody reminding them that this is Mike's board and he gave the Mess the OK for things to calm down, but even then, I was amazed by the level of self-importance and self-righteousness among some of the Senators. And the "Rename 'The Mess' to 'Assholes'" poll, what a fucking joke... :rolleyes:

All in all, I think the Senate would do well to remember that this is an anonymous web board where we talk about Star Wars, Star Trek, Politics, etc., not the US Senate or House of Commons. I don't get the impression that Wayne Poe or Mike Wong spend their evenings boasting about their battles with Darkstar or Dante Leonhart, but the behavior of some Senators makes me wonder if they don't take this all a little too seriously.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Indeed; everyone will know when I have unilateral authority to ban, because of the number of people twisting in the Parting Shots forum.

I remember while back when you were still just a regular moderator, and people (even people on the staff) thought you were a supermod already. I guess you just radiate authority.

or quoting DRx and DRy like they're written on stone tablets, or whatever else y'all are doing to soak up bandwidth.

How lame of this anonymous person. We made the rules for a reason, and whining about the fact that the Senate is helping enforce the rules is wrong-headed. Should we go back to the way we ran the board before we came up with the rules, where there were no criteria for punishment and the staff just summarily did whatever seemed good? We're getting pretty crotchety these days and that might be a lot of fun.

Maybe they do get too worked up about the board, and certainly there are at least a few holier-than-thou members. I don't really pay that much attention most of the time. I have to say that it's convenient to have the Senate actively engaged in finding and reporting violations of the rules, and then voting on punishment.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Have these anonymous bitchers seriously considered the possible that we're having fun when we debate this stuff?

And there's no reason why we shouldn't have fun as long as we're debating under the rules and procedures, either.

[Surlethe]

Maybe we're not having enough fun. I hereby propose and move that PM records be made public and any and all dissent, complaint, or otherwise bitching, private or public, against the Imperial Senate be punishable by any one of the following:

1. Removal of avatar and loss of signature privileges, to be replaced at the discretion of the Imperial Senate with a large sig banner reading, in bright, bold, red letters: "UP YOURS, BITCHER";
2. Bannination for a period of no less than two weeks and no more than nine months, with the exact duration at the discretion of the Imperial Senate;
3. Suspension of posting privileges in one or more of the subforums, the exact nature of the suspension to be determined by the Imperial Senate; or
4. Public flogging, up to but no more than thirty lashes.

This amendment to the board policies shall be known as the "Merriment Act of 2007", to commemorate the enshrinement of fun into the rules. What say ye, my distinguished colleagues?

[SirNitram]

I vote we hang Surlethe by his feet with his head in the toilet for the Merriment Act. If we, your overlords and masters, intended you to have fun, we would have issued you slinkies.

[Spyder]

And the "Rename 'The Mess' to 'Assholes'" poll, what a fucking joke... :rolleyes:

You're welcome.

[Coyote]

Note that I've been asked to put name to comment in regards to this here:

Good God in heaven, yes. I'm sure you all could find something better to do than carry on about Superman's precious avatar privileges for three pages, or quoting DRx and DRy like they're written on stone tablets, or whatever else y'all are doing to soak up bandwidth.

--Howedar

I understand there may (or, admittedly, may not) be a [Senate Attention] thread in Off-Topic at some point as a potential means to voice concerns/complaints/petitions by the people. Actually, I find myself surprised that this has not happened.

[Dalton]

Nobody's fucking forcing him to read any of this.

[Connor MacLeod]

Something to consider is is that the Senate has not really been around long enough to establish any hard and fast rules, traditions, precedents, or anything of that sort. We're still basically feeling our way along here, as we go, and there's a buttload of trial and error in that.

That also includes what is or isn't appropriate or worth bringing up in the forums. Thus far, yes, we've had some frivolous cases and cases that did NOT Warrant action on the part of the Senate, but at the time we didn't know that - we're still at the point where Senators are expected to use their discretion in that matter, and there's no other guiding elements beyond the rules already laid out.

Until some more time has passed, things are probably goign to be alot more like they are. Could we maybe relax some? Sure, but I don't get exactly worked up or devote huge amounts of time to paying attention to the Senate., nor do I see any problems with merely debating any of this stuff. I'm also sure many of the non-Senators have their own views or attitudes (And some do share them), and they're entitled to them. But I could ask some of them if they don't have better things to do with their time than watch us waste ours (which actually seems worse...)

The purpose of the Senate, as I've figured, is to act as an extra sort of eyes and ears for the mods and admins. we're sort of extra help, in filitering through things we think should be brought to their attention. That is a sort of power, yes, but they're not neccesarily constrained by anything we say, ,either. They've still go ttheir own judgements and such, and of course Mike is always the final veto since its his board. But the senate is still growing into that role, so we still need some time and patience to be allowed to do so. Its only been what, a year?

[Ghost Rider]

Nobody's fucking forcing him to read any of this.

But if they don't read this, we'll be seen as the evil overlords!!!!!

[Surlethe]

Also, more from constituents!

On a less serious note, have you guys considered adjourning the Senate for a summer recess? Afterall, if real Senates take extended summer breaks since there's not much if anything to do, why shouldn't you? If something important happens to come up during this time, you can always call an emergency session to deal with the issue. There's not much going on at SD.net at the moment, take a vacation, you know you want to...

I heartily second this motion!

[Coyote]

I dig it!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Can we put first class airfare for ourselves and our girlfriends--and Broomstick's husband (Sorry. Sometimes I forget there are straight women posting here)--and our personal servants to the Bahamas? With seven-night stays at resort luxury suites? And put it all on a government expense account?

[Dalton]

Can we put first class airfare for ourselves and our girlfriends--and Broomstick's husband (Sorry. Sometimes I forget there are straight women posting here)--and our personal servants to the Bahamas? With seven-night stays at resort luxury suites? And put it all on a government expense account?

Sorry, the entire travel budget has already been spent. Pablo's trips to Bangkok can get quite expensive.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Can we put first class airfare for ourselves and our girlfriends--and Broomstick's husband (Sorry. Sometimes I forget there are straight women posting here)--and our personal servants to the Bahamas? With seven-night stays at resort luxury suites? And put it all on a government expense account?

Sorry, the entire travel budget has already been spent. Pablo's trips to Bangkok can get quite expensive.

Considering that the alternative is illegal and immoral, I'm going to assume that Pablo likes ladyboys.

[Lord Poe]

Sorry, the entire travel budget has already been spent. Pablo's trips to Bangkok can get quite expensive.

Huh huh huh huh huh huh! You said....

[Pablo Sanchez]

Considering that the alternative is illegal and immoral, I'm going to assume that Pablo likes ladyboys.

I was in the Golden Triangle on behalf of the forum in an official opium-related capacity, about which the less said the better. None of the things I did in Siam were illegal, due to extraterritoriality.