Spoiler policy [discussion]

[Knife]

My dear associates; a humble poster sent me a message asking about the potential to develope either a better spoiler policy or perhaps a 'spoiler tag' as seen on other boards.

Perhaps some more technical minded of us can comment on the actual bbs code (I'm assuming) since I know little of it.

Or, and I actually agree with the constituent, a clarification of 'spoiler' policy. If I understand my message right, and not far from how I view it, reading various threads about...say a new movie or book, there are bound to either be tiny text every couple posts or people bitching that there are spoilers in a thread about a new movie or book.

Should there be a hard clad rule about tiny text or this 'spoiler tag'? Or perhaps an expectation that if your in a thread about a new movie or book, there might be spoilers in it?

[Stravo]

I'm inclined to think if you see a thread "Spiderman 3 Reviews" or "Pirates of Caribbean Thoughts" that you're basically a moron for clicking onto that thread and NOT expecting to be spoiled. Why the hell do we need to cater to people with absolutely no self control that can't keep from clicking on a link that clearly is going to be chockful of spoilers?

I went through the year of ROTS without clicking on a single thread that may even remotely deal with ROTS and went into the movie relatively spoiler free. I exhibited some self control and will and had no issues at a time when the board was literally buzzing with threads about the upcoming movie and someone can't keep out of a single movie review thread or topic that is just begging to have spoilers?

I'm all for spoiler warnings or a tag on a thread dealing with tangental topics arising out of a movie/book/tv show but feel that going a step further and having spoilers for the actual review or discussion threads is a bit like having a slippery when wet sign by a pool side.

[Mad]

I'm inclined to think if you see a thread "Spiderman 3 Reviews" or "Pirates of Caribbean Thoughts" that you're basically a moron for clicking onto that thread and NOT expecting to be spoiled. Why the hell do we need to cater to people with absolutely no self control that can't keep from clicking on a link that clearly is going to be chockful of spoilers?

True, there isn't really any reasonable expectation that a thread discussing a new release won't have spoilers (unless the thread title or opening post explicitly declares the thread to be spoiler-free, of course). If a group of people were discussing what they liked and hated about a new movie and you didn't want to be spoiled, you certainly wouldn't deliberately jump into their conversation, after all.

That said, a spoiler tag (that works well) is pretty much a must-have. It's incredibly annoying trying to follow a long conversation that uses a small font to avoid revealing spoilers.

Requests for spoiler tags have appeared here before, but nothing has been done. We need to do something, even if it's just a vote to begin looking into options (existing mods, developing our own, etc).

I can assist in developing our own if we decide to do that.

[Knife]

Out of curiousity, since I've apperently never been on a board that I'm aware of that has them what do the tags do? Is it the one that makes text invisible unless highlighted?

Any way, my own personal opinion mirrors Strav's (btw, nice to see you around). We've as a board have had this argument before, as recently as the BSG threads and the people who didn't want to be spoiled by discussion of the intro, let alone the 'next week' bit at the end.

In my view, this is ridiculous as were the contortions on the PotCIII thread coupled with tiny text. I hate reading a thread where I have to constantly hit reply to see the actual text real quick.

Of course, if post makes a 'NEW MOVIE no spoilers please' thread, in that case the OT is no spoilers and to do so is in bad taste.

[Knife]

Another message from a different poster-

There has been numerous discussions about adding a spoiler tag mechanism to board, much like the various threads surrounding the LaTex add on - Nothing ever happens about it, simply because no one really has the technically expertise to add them onto the board which is why those threads always die a quick painless death.

If we had someone who knew how to actually do this stuff, it would make everyone's lives far easier.

Though Mad indicated earlier he might be up to the task. *shrug*

Another post PM'ed me who seems to be up to the task if Mike indeed wishes to update the software to cover this issue, if a more mundane resolution isn't adaquate.

[Beowulf]

I've seen boards with spoiler tags. Basically what they do is stick the text into something that looks similar to a quote box, but that's collapsed into just a bit of text out side the box, and a button to expand the box so that everything is visible. An advantage of that method is that it allows the inclusion of images that may be spoilers.

[Surlethe]

I'm all for a spoiler tag, if it can be painlessly inserted into the board software. As for the rules, I don't see any need for revision. A big [SPOILERS] in the thread title is nice, but shouldn't be required: unless the OP specifically asks that they be kept in small font, readers should assume that a review thread will contain spoilers.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm against anything of the sort.

If these people aren't intelligent enough to consider the possibility of spoilers in a review thread, let them be spoiled.

[Coyote]

Always enter a movie/book thread under the expectation of spoilers. If that bugs you, stay the fuck out. Why go through gyrations to appease a handful of people who cannot contain themselves?

I for one love spoilers, and really get annoyed having to log on just so I can hit "quote" to read the tiny print. Feh, I say!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Always enter a movie/book thread under the expectation of spoilers. If that bugs you, stay the fuck out. Why go through gyrations to appease a handful of people who cannot contain themselves?

I for one love spoilers, and really get annoyed having to log on just so I can hit "quote" to read the tiny print. Feh, I say!

You can copy and paste it to an AIM text box and it will come up full size.

[Mad]

You can copy and paste it to an AIM text box and it will come up full size.

Or Notepad. But it's incredibly annoying and time-consuming, especially when it goes on for pages, like in the PotC III thread that has been mentioned.

[Surlethe]

Starglider has contacted me and mentioned that he's added a spoiler tag to his polls mod. It can be found and tested here.

[Knife]

Always enter a movie/book thread under the expectation of spoilers. If that bugs you, stay the fuck out. Why go through gyrations to appease a handful of people who cannot contain themselves?

I for one love spoilers, and really get annoyed having to log on just so I can hit "quote" to read the tiny print. Feh, I say!

I would agree, except we've done this before (iirc) and still the confusion and bitching in various threads continue down through the ages. Hence why I kind of though an actual policy might be worth of thought.

Starglider has contacted me and mentioned that he's added a spoiler tag to his polls mod. It can be found and tested

Yes, he has said as so to me too. Also another post has sent me all sorts of links too, for a mod. Obviously it's Mikes board and he can add or subtract what he wishes.

[Lord Poe]

I'm against anything of the sort.

If these people aren't intelligent enough to consider the possibility of spoilers in a review thread, let them be spoiled.

Agreed. And [SPOILERS] in the title for those lacking in common sense should be more than enough.

[Surlethe]

I've received a PM that raises an interesting point about the wider application of a spoilers tag:

I really don't know how to convey how I feel about the subject, but I consider the addition of a spoiler function to the board to be a pretty important matter, beyond simply the trivial issue of "people needing to stay out of spoiler threads if they don't want to get spoiled" and more equivalent to how the quick post function suddenly made posting in threads much more efficient, but it appears that some of those within the Senate that are voicing opinion against it are only seeing it's significance in a very narrow line of view, outlining it in more or less that suggested above, which is already essentially the policy taken right now. But spoilers and shrinked text crops up in a lot of places and various discussions, and it really would make it tremendously convenient if a spoiler function, like the one currently active on Penny Arcade's board, were employed. I feel that the Senate should see it with a wider frame of view than simply that regarding solely threads that concern movies or books as they are immediately released, and consider how widely the function would be employed if it was implemented.

Perhaps if it's a review thread, people should accept the fact of normal-text spoilers, but if the mod's acceptable and we're implementing it anyway, I don't see any reason to turn down a spoiler tag.

[Mad]

Starglider has contacted me and mentioned that he's added a spoiler tag to his polls mod. It can be found and tested here.

Looks good to me.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I'm against anything of the sort.

If these people aren't intelligent enough to consider the possibility of spoilers in a review thread, let them be spoiled.

not to mention there are some folks who are just plain clueless. My roomate yelled at me for discussing the plot of "Yojimbo" because he hasn't seen the original japanese version... (never mind that he's seen the italian and american adaptations several times)

[Frank Hipper]

I avoided the entire PSW forum for more than a year to avoid having ROTS spoiled, do you honestly think I have any sympathy for a person who spoils something for themself?

If it's something that you might want to see or read, and are afraid of having it spoiled, avoid any and all threads about that subject.
Are you so stupid that you won't be able to spoil something for yourself by the context of a conversation?

Please.

[Knife]

Hmm, I'm unsure as to how to proceed from here then. Seems a majority in the tread lean towards the 'don't read the thread if you don't want to be spoiled' attitude.

Though plenty have noted the ability to put in these tags. I'm more than fine with a 'don't read if you don't want to be spoiled' type policy. It just seems we've covered this before and the whining continues in various threads.

[Mad]

Hmm, I'm unsure as to how to proceed from here then. Seems a majority in the tread lean towards the 'don't read the thread if you don't want to be spoiled' attitude.

Though plenty have noted the ability to put in these tags. I'm more than fine with a 'don't read if you don't want to be spoiled' type policy. It just seems we've covered this before and the whining continues in various threads.

I'm both for a "don't read a thread if you think it may have spoilers in it" and a spoiler tag.

The "don't read the thread if you think there's a chance it may have spoilers in it" is just common sense.

However, sometimes spoilers do come up in threads that wouldn't otherwise be a spoiler thread (perhaps a new release has a relevant piece of information to a debate on a subject centering around a past release, for instance).

Or maybe people will have a long, annoying small-text conversation regarding spoilers (see the PotC: At World's End thread).

In either of those cases, a spoiler tag will be much more convenient.

And, besides, the Opera web browser has a default setting to prevent text from being too small to read. If that feature has not specifically been turned off, then small text will be ineffectual for those users.

[Knife]

An opposing view sent to me by a poster...

Would you perhaps consider bringing up the issue of previews with regard to ongoing television series? The most egregious example I can think of being neoBSG, in which there have been several arguments over whether or not the preview for the next episode shown at the end of the most recent episode constitutes a spoiler for the next episode.

A quote by RI was includedand relevant so;

I think it's reasonable to spoilerize any information from the previews, especially since fucking SciFi isn't very careful with them and can put pretty big spoilers in.

Also, it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, any information from the preview for tonight's episode is a spoiler until airtime.

Personally, I disagree with this, though I'm happy to bring it up as asked. Going back to what Stravo said earlier in the tread...(paraphrase) if you don't want to be spoiled stay away from the tread.

Discussions about the previews in a thread about the show/movie whatever would be pretty obviously included in the thread unless a 'no spoiler' was in the topic name.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

If anyone is whining over this issue, they should be ruthlessly mocked, as Frank Hipper's example amply demonstrates justification for.

As for spoilerizing TV teasers and trailers, hell no. They're there for a reason.

[Knife]

Another poster wanted his/her views known, however withholding the name per request;

It's a shame that the possibility of the board gaining a spoiler tag might be completely shot down and buried simply because it was presented to the Senate as part of a proposal to examine the existent spoiler policy. In such a case, of course it would get clouded over by a larger and more provoking issue. Really, the addition of a spoiler tag has little or nothing at all to do with the actual spoiler policy. What it really is is simply an alteration and replacement of the standard, accepted, enforced, and currently preferred practice of hiding spoilers within small text, with the intention of making the discussion of such in non-spoiler-centric threads more efficient and easier to manage. It has nothing to do with the spoiler policy as it exists, and to see the Senate discuss spoiler policy instead of what should have been a genuine and simple matter is quite distressing.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Starglider clearly was not using the internet during the USENET era.

[Surlethe]

A few points from a peon:

Some points raised against the idea of spoiler tags seem to presuppose that they are exclusively for the benefit of those who don't want to be spoiled. Moreover, the prevailing sentiments seem to be that the word "spoiler" in thread titles are sufficient. For instance, one honourable Senator pointed out that he avoided the Star Wars forum outright to avoid spoilers pertaining to the prequels, while another made disparaging remarks about the intelligence of forumites concerned that they might be spoiled.

However, this misses a crucial point: the spoiler tags are not merely for those who don't want to be spoiled, but also for those who do want to be spoiled. The problem is that many find micro-text to be immensely annoying, since this way it is neccesary to either hit "reply" or copy-paste every spoilerized post into Notepad or somesuch in order to read it.

Moreover, thread discussions can in fact meander into topics not mentioned in the title; in this case while one may not mind spoilers for one topic, one may still encounter spoilers for another. With this mod, it would be possible to post spoilers in tangental discussions without annoying people by using micro-text or potentially ruining other people's enjoyment.

Another function for the spoiler tag has already been mentioned: with tags, it becomes possible to post inlined images that might be spoilers.

With some inventiveness, further applications can arise. For instance, in a particularly lengthy post with multiple points, part of the dissertation can be placed in spoiler tags leaving only the outline of the post "in the open", so as to provide greater clarity. Spoiler tags can also be used to cover up tangential points even if they are not spoilers, so as to not clutter a thread.

I especially like the last point this person raises. For example, if the idea of an archive forum ever gets through discussion in the Senate and is approved by the administration, spoiler tags would be an excellent way of organizing the information. There are also potential applications in the Shit List and other Chronicle projects (if that usergroup is ever revived).