Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply

How would you rate this episode

5. Better than Tom Baker's Who
0
No votes
4. Buying the bluray
6
75%
3. comme ci comme ça
0
No votes
2. What was that?
1
13%
1. Abort the show
1
13%
0. Going to make an hour long youtube video whining about Doctor Who
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 8

User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by mr friendly guy »

Ok, I must admit, I am surprised by Chibnall's effort this season so far. Its actually fun, although there are some usual plot problems, like the Master needing to explain his plan to gloat just like in the classic series.

So random plot points which I enjoy

1. Companions not useless.

2. Time travel to cheat - ie the Doctor leaves clues to resolve the cliffhangar from episode one

3. Celebration of computing - the Doctor meets Babbage.

4. Celebration of interesting women through out history - cue the anti SJWs whining. I mean how many historical men does Doctor Who show? Off the top of my head, Shakespere, HG Wells, Alan Turing (in EU media), Marco Polo, King John (ok that was a robot in disguise), Van Gogh etc. There were a few women such as Queen Victoria, Madame Pompadore etc. Nothing wrong with that.

5. The Master trying his luck with some alien invasion - harkens back to classical Who eg Terror of the Autons, Timeflight (where the aliens were actually energy beings like the aliens from this episode), Claws of Axos etc.

6. The Master is back to form, as a goddamn sociopath. How he casually uses the tissue compressor eliminator to shrink and kill people. Remember when he murdered Tegan's (companion from the Tom Baker / Peter Davison's era) auntie and an Australian policeman in Logopolis. Remember how John Simm's version was a total dick. That's the return to form. If you needed a female Time Lord villainess who reforms, just go with the Rani. :D

Plot points which could blow up in our face

1. The Master destroys Gallifrey. Man, back to RTD's reign. Sigh. The Time Lords in my opinion would be best used if we actually had a time war and a way to show how epic things are if the TL need to be involve.
Now onto why he did it. Time Lords lied about their history. Ok, so this better be good revelation or else it would be a big let down.

Some interesting things
1. The Doctor states its low even for the Master to work with the Nazis. Come on, he works with the fucking Daleks (Frontier in Space is the obvious story line that springs to mind), and he murdered like half the universe (Logopolis). He had the Toclafane kill like all of Japan because he was a dick. Commanding a few German troops doesn't compare.

2. Useful commentary on technology and privacy. Contrast to what certain ahem anti SJW commentators think about politics in shows, they really who have no freaking idea about the show's history. Politics has entered DW numerous times. Just watch the classical episode the Sunmakers and then look up which British politician the Ursurian alien's appearance was supposed to be based on.

------------------------
I am again giving this 4/5.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
Bedlam
Jedi Master
Posts: 1495
Joined: 2006-09-23 11:12am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Bedlam »

I overall enjoyed it although maybe it was a little to fast paced particularly in the last 15 minutes or so where they races to set up the overarching plot for the series.

I agree I did like the Master being actually scary in this episode, he came across as a barely maniac who could lash out at any moment i.e. randomly murdering a few Victorians just because he could.

The appearance of Ada Gordon / Lovelace, Noor Khan and Charles Babbage felt a little perfunctory they could probably have had a whole story about them each as it was they didn't really do much (interestingly Babbage didn't seem to get a mind wipe probably because he didn't time travel).

Gallifrey being destroyed did seem a bit of a reset given it didn't do anything since it was brought back but I hope it will be interesting to see where they do with the 'dark secret behind it all' if it disgusts the Master. Still nothing to clearly say if this version is pre or post Missy, I can live with that traditionally they didn't often explain how he survived his previous story when he was brought back in the original show.

Overall it looks like a good start to the season and hopefully it can keep up the momentum for the rest of it.
User avatar
SpottedKitty
Jedi Master
Posts: 1004
Joined: 2014-08-22 08:24pm
Location: UK

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by SpottedKitty »

Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
“Despite rumor, Death isn't cruel — merely terribly, terribly good at his job.”
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery
User avatar
Tribble
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3082
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Tribble »

SpottedKitty wrote: 2020-01-06 04:42pm Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
IIRC the “Nightmare Child” was mentioned a couple of times including in the End of Time; apparently it was some kind of Eldritch Abomination during the Time War that the Doctor was not too fond of. IIRC it originally killed Davros before Dalek Caan managed to break the time lock and rescue him.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by mr friendly guy »

Tribble wrote: 2020-01-06 06:08pm
SpottedKitty wrote: 2020-01-06 04:42pm Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
IIRC the “Nightmare Child” was mentioned a couple of times including in the End of Time; apparently it was some kind of Eldritch Abomination during the Time War that the Doctor was not too fond of. IIRC it originally killed Davros before Dalek Caan managed to break the time lock and rescue him.
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Nightmare_Child

Spin off media added more info. Apparently its a super Dalek which got out of control. Presumably it hurt the Daleks more than the Time Lords, hence why Davros tried to destroy it and failed.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
B5B7
Jedi Knight
Posts: 781
Joined: 2005-10-22 02:02am
Location: Perth Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by B5B7 »

SpottedKitty wrote: 2020-01-06 04:42pm Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
The Timeless Child was mentioned in the first season of the current Doctor in the episode Ghost Monument.

A curiosity about this episode is that it mentions that the spy aliens have been on Earth for hundreds of years, which means that they were present in many of the previous events from Doctor Who such as the Toclafane invasion that the Master also initiated.
TVWP: "Janeway says archly, "Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating." Is the female of the species trying to initiate mating now? Janeway accepts Paris's apology and tells him she's putting him in for a commendation. The salamander sex was that good."
"Not bad - for a human"-Bishop to Ripley
GALACTIC DOMINATION Empire Board Game visit link below:
GALACTIC DOMINATION
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by bilateralrope »

B5B7 wrote: 2020-01-07 09:39amA curiosity about this episode is that it mentions that the spy aliens have been on Earth for hundreds of years, which means that they were present in many of the previous events from Doctor Who such as the Toclafane invasion that the Master also initiated.
They would still need to connect this regeneration of the Master with the previous ones.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28723
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Broomstick »

The four-beat signal was a definite call-back to prior seasons/regenerations
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Adam Reynolds »

One thing that was really sad to learn is that Noor Khan was captured not long after The Doctor left her. She ultimately died in a concentration camp in 1944. I really liked that her final question wasn't about what happens to her, it was about whether or not fascism ultimately fails.
Post Reply