SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

[Ziggy Stardust]

Add on to that list another few years of ruthless gerrymandering to further disenfranchise Democrat-leaning constituencies, Tribble.

As you said, the Republicans have only learned that there can be no "half measures". They are going to continue doing their work to undermine the legitimacy of our elections. They truly, honestly thought they had gone far enough this time to overcome the majority, but they lost, so they know what they need to do next is keep even more people from voting. Remember, approval ratings for Trump and company are still sky high among Republican voters. Nothing has happened to undermine their faith in him or their support for him, all that has happened is that a subset of them are now enraged at the idea of voter fraud (and the precious few who are smart enough to realize Biden won legitimately don't do anything to repudiate that, either).

Also, there was that brief round of liberal gloating about how even Fox News had called the election against Trump. But look at the headlines they are running. They don't talk about Trump's court cases getting thrown out, they don't talk about the stock market reaching an all-time high once the transition was approved; they talk about the shockingly "radical" picks Biden is making for cabinet posts and other hit pieces (hell, they are REALLY going after Gavin Newsome something fierce lately, too, I suspect the GOP thinks he is a future Dem presidential candidate and they are trying to poison the well early, every day one of their top headlines is about Newsome being a hypocrite or something). And this is essentially the ONLY lens through which the ~70 million people who voted for Trump this year view the world around them. They live in an increasingly toxic and distorted version of reality and there are no signs that it is getting less toxic or less distorted.

[bilateralrope]

The latest Republican lawsuit, the one asking the courts to throw out the votes of 4 states, has been rejected by the Supreme Court. They aren't even going to hear it.

The Supreme Court only needs 4 of the justices to say that a case is worth hearing to bring it before the court. It didn't even get that. Assuming that Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas stuck to their position that the court doesn't have the authority to refuse to hear lawsuits between states, that means that at least 2 of the 3 justices Trump appointed refused to hear it.

US Election: Supreme Court rejects 'the big one', the Republican attack on Biden victory

The Supreme Court has rejected a lawsuit backed by US President Donald Trump to overturn Joe Biden’s election victory, ending a desperate attempt to get legal issues rejected by state and federal judges before the nation’s highest court.

The court’s order was its second this week rebuffing Republican requests that it get involved in the 2020 election outcome and overturn the will of voters as expressed in an election regarded by both Republican and Democratic officials as free and fair. The justices turned away an appeal from Pennsylvania Republicans on Tuesday.

The Electoral College meets Monday to formally elect Biden as the next president.

Trump had called the lawsuit filed by Texas against Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin “the big one” that would end with the Supreme Court undoing Biden’s substantial Electoral College majority and allowing Trump to serve another four years in the White House.

In a brief order, the court said Texas does not have the legal right to sue those states because it “has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections.”

Justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas, who have said previously the court does not have the authority to turn away lawsuits between states, said they would have heard Texas' complaint. But they would not have done as Texas wanted pending resolution of the lawsuit, and set aside those four states' 62 electoral votes for Biden.

Three Trump appointees sit on the high court. In his push to get the most recent of his nominees, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, confirmed quickly, Trump said she would be needed for any post-election lawsuits. Barrett appears to have participated in both cases this week. None of the Trump appointees noted a dissent in either case.

Eighteen other states won by Trump in last month’s election, 126 Republican members of Congress and Trump himself joined Texas in calling on the justices to take up the case that sought to stop electors from casting their votes for Biden.

The four states sued by Texas had urged the court to reject the case as meritless. They were backed by another 22 states and the District of Columbia.

Republican support for the lawsuit and its call to throw out millions of votes in four battleground states based on baseless claims of fraud was an extraordinary display of the party’s willingness to subvert the will of voters. The House members backing the suit included House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy of California and Minority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana.

“This lawsuit is an act of flailing GOP (Republican Party) desperation, which violates the principles enshrined in our American Democracy,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wrote in a message to Democrats on Friday.

A few Republicans have expressed concerns about the case. Many others have remained silent even as Trump endlessly repeated claims that he lost a chance at a second term due to widespread fraud.

“Texas is a big state, but I don’t know exactly why it has a right to tell four other states how to run their elections. So I’m having a hard time figuring out the basis for that lawsuit,” Republican Senator Lamar Alexander told NBC’s Chuck Todd in an interview for Meet The Press that will air Sunday.

To be clear, there has been no evidence of widespread fraud.

The Texas complaint repeated false, disproved and unsubstantiated accusations about the voting in four states that went for Trump’s Democratic challenger. The high court had never before been asked for such a dramatic remedy.

Two days after Paxton filed his suit, Trump jumped into the high court case. Hours later, the president held a meeting at the White House, scheduled before the suit was filed, with a dozen Republican attorneys general, including Paxton and several others who backed the effort.

“If the Supreme Court shows great Wisdom and Courage, the American People will win perhaps the most important case in history, and our Electoral Process will be respected again!” he tweeted Friday afternoon. Trump had spent the week relentlessly tweeting about the Texas case with the hashtag “overturn” and claiming, falsely, that he had won the election but was robbed.

Still, some of the top state Republican prosecutors who urged the court to get involved acknowledged that the effort was a long shot and sought to distance themselves from Trump’s baseless allegations of fraud. North Dakota’s Wayne Stenehjem, among the attorneys general supporting the case, said North Dakota is not alleging voter fraud in the four states at issue.

“We’re careful on that,” said Stenehjem, who noted that his office has received thousands of calls and emails from constituents asking the state to support the suit. “But it’s worth it for the Supreme Court to weigh in and settle it once and for all,” he said.

The case has inflamed already high tensions over the election. West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey said his office staff received two death threats Thursday after he signed onto the brief supporting the case.

The lawsuit has also divided officials in some states.

Montana Attorney General Tim Fox supported Texas’ case, even though he said the suit was “belated” and its chances “are slim at best.” Fox said the case raised “important constitutional questions about the separation of powers and the integrity of mail-in ballots in those defendant states.”

But Democratic Governor Steve Bullock urged the court to reject the case. He said the fact that Texas is not suing Montana, which Trump won, even though the state similarly used mail-in ballots underscores that “this action is less about election integrity than it is about attempting to overturn the will of the electorate.”

The litigation rankled Democratic attorneys general. Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey, co-chair of the Democratic Attorneys General Association, called the attempt to overturn votes “unconscionable.” Support among other leading lawyers was disturbing, Nevada Attorney General Aaron Ford, who’s also co-chair of the Democratic attorneys general group, told The Associated Press.

“I do think that these individuals are kowtowing to a president who has implemented some level of control and authority over the duly elected attorneys general in their states in a way that is unfortunate,” he said.

Many of the attorneys general supporting the case have shown greater political ambitions.

In Kansas, Republican Attorney General Derek Schmidt, who is considering a bid for governor in 2022, announced that he would back the effort only hours after former Republican Governor Jeff Colyer – another potential candidate for governor – tweeted that Schmidt’s office should.

Despite the political pressure, Idaho’s Republican attorney general chose not to join Texas.

“As is sometimes the case, the legally correct decision may not be the politically convenient decision,” Lawrence Wasden said in a statement. “But my responsibility is to the state of Idaho and the rule of law.”

So it looks like their attempts to use the courts to overturn the election have failed. I hope that's as far as they are willing to go over a result they don't like.

[His Divine Shadow]

I do remember Mark Blyth making a convincing case that the supreme court being stacked in favor of republicans, might not be the big advantage/disadvantage that both repubs/dems believe it is.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I do remember Mark Blyth making a convincing case that the supreme court being stacked in favor of republicans, might not be the big advantage/disadvantage that both repubs/dems believe it is.

I still think it's a pretty major advantage (I mean the current court's history is still littered with decisions split along ideological lines). I think the issue (and what Trump clearly does not comprehend) is that the loyalty of conservative judges is to a particular ideology and not to a particular person (i.e. Trump). It's pretty clear that Trump thought that him appointing justices would leave them beholden to him utterly and completely, which is simply not the case. If he had not believed the court would be more pliant to his will, I would be willing to bet that he would have tried harder to present a "better" case to them. Air quotes obviously because no matter what his claims are fraud are ridiculous and unfounded, but I think part of the reason the cases and claims that have been presented have been so flagrantly flimsy and ludicrous was based on the assumption that the court was in his pocket. Sure, there's also some desperation and incompetence mixed in, but I do think a lot of this was driven by the arrogant belief that "his" justices would all rush to his rescue.

[FireNexus]

You know it’s the worst year ever when the 2020 election thread is still open on December 20.

[Soontir C'boath]

I do remember Mark Blyth making a convincing case that the supreme court being stacked in favor of republicans, might not be the big advantage/disadvantage that both repubs/dems believe it is.

I still think it's a pretty major advantage (I mean the current court's history is still littered with decisions split along ideological lines). I think the issue (and what Trump clearly does not comprehend) is that the loyalty of conservative judges is to a particular ideology and not to a particular person (i.e. Trump). It's pretty clear that Trump thought that him appointing justices would leave them beholden to him utterly and completely, which is simply not the case. If he had not believed the court would be more pliant to his will, I would be willing to bet that he would have tried harder to present a "better" case to them. Air quotes obviously because no matter what his claims are fraud are ridiculous and unfounded, but I think part of the reason the cases and claims that have been presented have been so flagrantly flimsy and ludicrous was based on the assumption that the court was in his pocket. Sure, there's also some desperation and incompetence mixed in, but I do think a lot of this was driven by the arrogant belief that "his" justices would all rush to his rescue.

So in short, Trump is the stereotypical cartoon villain who thinks he can align and control powerful forces, but ends up being flicked away like an insect.

[aerius]

You know it’s the worst year ever when the 2020 election thread is still open on December 20.

It's like the 2000 elections, with extra fuckery.

[Solauren]

At least the 2000 elections had some legitimate issues caused by incompetence.

This is incompetence without legitimate issues/chances.

[PainRack]

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/do ... carone/amp

You gained international infamy earlier this month as Rudy Giuliani’s so-called ‘star witness’ who could supposedly corroborate outlandish accusations that Dominion has somehow rigged or otherwise improperly influenced the outcome of the Nov. 2020 U.S. presidential election,” attorneys Thomas Clare and Megan Meier wrote. “Without a shred of corroborating evidence, you have claimed that you witnessed several different versions of voter fraud—ranging from one story involving a van, to other accusations that votes were counted multiple times. You published these statements even though you knew all along that your attacks on Dominion have no basis in reality.”

Carone testified before the Michigan House and Senate Oversight Committees in a “stunt hearing,” saying she worked a 24-hour shift for providing IT support for Dominion voting machines at Detroit’s TCF Center on election day. She also submitted an affidavit in November claiming she witnessed individual ballots being scanned multiple times; she claimed thousands of ballots were being hidden in the vans used to provide food for elections workers.

“Everything that happened at that TCF Center was fraud,” she declared before the Michigan lawmakers.

“Every single thing,” she added.

Footage of her testimony went viral, resulting in her being parodied by Saturday Night Live. In a subsequent interview, Carone said she was “not drunk” during the hearing.

Dominion also took a swipe at Carone’s claims that her work for the company gave her access to any kind of special knowledge about its business processes.

“We write to you now because you have positioned yourself as a prominent leader of the ongoing misinformation campaign by pretending to have some sort of ‘insider’s knowledge’ regarding Dominion’s business activities, when in reality you were hired through a staffing agency for one day to clean glass on machines and complete other menial tasks,” the letter stated.

Melissa...rudy giuliani "star" witness who became infamous for her testimony where she verbally assaulted the Senator with I can go to jail for lying ,was nothing more than a temp janitor and not IT expert.

[LaCroix]

Aaand she received a "cease and desist" and declared she will not...

I should invest in popcorn stock...

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Aaand she received a "cease and desist" and declared she will not...

I should invest in popcorn stock...

Should serve Trump with one, see what happens. He still has more than 2 weeks in office, though he'll probably spend most of it on the golf course. Shame we won't see him being removed from the White House in handcuffs.

[Raw Shark]

Shame we won't see him being removed from the White House in handcuffs.

I'm still holding out hope for a straightjacket, if he suddenly breaks character and makes good on his promise to never leave voluntarily.

[Dominus Atheos]

Aaand she received a "cease and desist" and declared she will not...

I should invest in popcorn stock...

Should serve Trump with one, see what happens. He still has more than 2 weeks in office, though he'll probably spend most of it on the golf course. Shame we won't see him being removed from the White House in handcuffs.

Don't assume we are out of the woods just because 2020 is over, and besides on the Julian calendar 2020 doesn't end for another 2 weeks:

Trump diehards from across the country have organized their travel to Washington on “The Donald” forum. One of the hottest topics on the site is how protesters can bring guns to D.C., which would count as a local crime in nearly all circumstances under Washington’s strict gun laws. Others have talked about breaking into federal buildings or committing violence against law enforcement officers who try to stop them from storming Congress.

“I’m thinking it will be literal war on that day,” one popular comment posted last Wednesday read. “Where we’ll storm offices and physically remove and even kill all the D.C. traitors and reclaim the country.”

Both the November and December rallies in Washington saw violence, especially after nightfall. And that seems likely to be the case this coming rally too. Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio claimed in a post on conservative social media network Parler that some Proud Boys would dress in black to disguise themselves as left-wing “antifa” protesters.

“Watch out, January 6 — you ain’t gonna know who the fuck it is standing beside you,” prominent Proud Boy Joe Biggs said in a video posted to Parler.

2020 still might 2020, even if it has to use the Julian calendar to do it.

[The_Saint]

...

...
Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio claimed in a post on conservative social media network Parler that some Proud Boys would dress in black to disguise themselves as left-wing “antifa” protesters.

“Watch out, January 6 — you ain’t gonna know who the fuck it is standing beside you,” prominent Proud Boy Joe Biggs said in a video posted to Parler.

2020 still might 2020, even if it has to use the Julian calendar to do it.

I'm not one for advocating murder and shenanigans but please, PLEASE if people do that let there be some friendly fire. The one time it would be good for the police to arrest the white supremacists lightly is right under the cameras after they shoot at themselves showing them to be the arses they are.

[Tribble]

So what happens if Democrat members of the House and Senate are prevented from entering and voting, but there are enough Republicans to form a quorum? Could the vote still proceed? Would a vote still be legally valid?

[LadyTevar]

So what happens if Democrat members of the House and Senate are prevented from entering and voting, but there are enough Republicans to form a quorum? Could the vote still proceed? Would a vote still be legally valid?

It SHOULDN'T be legal or valid, if there is enough unrest to prevent legislature from meeting.
However... this is Trump's GOP. How many illegal things have they been caught doing so far?

[Ralin]

It SHOULDN'T be legal or valid, if there is enough unrest to prevent legislature from meeting.
However... this is Trump's GOP. How many illegal things have they been caught doing so far?

Even nowadays I have to think that police surrounding the building and forcibly keeping Democrats out of the House/Senate during a vote would set off riots.

...Is what I was going to say, but before I finished I realized that's assuming they're keeping all or almost all of them out. But if it was just a critical few before a close vote? I'm not so sure anymore.

[TimothyC]

So what happens if Democrat members of the House and Senate are prevented from entering and voting, but there are enough Republicans to form a quorum? Could the vote still proceed? Would a vote still be legally valid?

Ok, so, the electoral college has already voted. What happens on the sixth is the votes that have already been cast are counted in the presence of the joint session of congress. When the stupid wing of the GOP raises their objections, congress will split into the two chambers and hold the vote on if the objection is sustainable. There are not enough GOP senators or Reps that have singed on to this particular line of stupid to reach a quorum in either chamber, and you would need to hold both to sustain the objection. If only one chamber sustains, the objection is defeated.

[Crossroads Inc.]

In other wholesome news... NPR recently reported that Trump, not content with having already been impeached for intimidation and 'quid quo pro' in the whole Ukraine fiasco, decided to straight up threaten the AG of Georgia to commit election fraud and "find" enough extra votes to let Trump win.

An angry President Trump pushed Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a fellow Republican, to overturn the state's presidential election result and appeared to at least partly blame Raffensperger for what could be lower turnout in Tuesday's runoff elections, which will decide control of the U.S. Senate, according to a recording of a phone call obtained by Georgia Public Broadcasting.

"The people of Georgia know that this was a scam, and because of what you've done to the president, a lot of people aren't going out to vote [in the runoffs]," Trump said in the remarkable Saturday call. "A lot of Republicans are going to vote negative because they hate what you did to the president."

He added: "You would be respected if this thing could be straightened out before the election." Trump lost the state by nearly 12,000 votes to President-elect Joe Biden.

More than 3 million Georgians have already voted in the two Jan. 5 runoffs, which pit incumbent Republican Sen. David Perdue against Democrat Jon Ossoff and incumbent GOP Sen. Kelly Loeffler against Democrat Raphael Warnock.

Mark Meadows, Trump's chief of staff, told Raffensperger he was hopeful that in a "spirit of cooperation and compromise" there would be some way to find a path forward to overturn Georgia's certified election results, which were confirmed by both a full hand audit and a machine recount.

"We don't agree that you have one," Raffensperger said.

An attorney for the secretary of state's office told the president on the call that state investigators, law enforcement and the courts looked into claims of illegal votes and found no evidence of widespread fraud that would overturn Trump's narrow loss.

But the president was undeterred.

"All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state," Trump stated at one point. "Flipping the state is a great testament to our country. It's a testament that they can admit to a mistake. A lot of people think it wasn't a mistake, it was much more criminal than that. But it's a big problem in Georgia, and it's not a problem that's going away."

So there you have it folks, recorded first hand, no way of beating about the bush. El Trumpo threatening an elected offical to commit Election Fraud.
Whats one more crime at this point?

[Solauren]

I posted that in the Internal Policy thread

[EnterpriseSovereign]

In other wholesome news... NPR recently reported that Trump, not content with having already been impeached for intimidation and 'quid quo pro' in the whole Ukraine fiasco, decided to straight up threaten the AG of Georgia to commit election fraud and "find" enough extra votes to let Trump win.

An angry President Trump pushed Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a fellow Republican, to overturn the state's presidential election result and appeared to at least partly blame Raffensperger for what could be lower turnout in Tuesday's runoff elections, which will decide control of the U.S. Senate, according to a recording of a phone call obtained by Georgia Public Broadcasting.

"The people of Georgia know that this was a scam, and because of what you've done to the president, a lot of people aren't going out to vote [in the runoffs]," Trump said in the remarkable Saturday call. "A lot of Republicans are going to vote negative because they hate what you did to the president."

He added: "You would be respected if this thing could be straightened out before the election." Trump lost the state by nearly 12,000 votes to President-elect Joe Biden.

More than 3 million Georgians have already voted in the two Jan. 5 runoffs, which pit incumbent Republican Sen. David Perdue against Democrat Jon Ossoff and incumbent GOP Sen. Kelly Loeffler against Democrat Raphael Warnock.

Mark Meadows, Trump's chief of staff, told Raffensperger he was hopeful that in a "spirit of cooperation and compromise" there would be some way to find a path forward to overturn Georgia's certified election results, which were confirmed by both a full hand audit and a machine recount.

"We don't agree that you have one," Raffensperger said.

An attorney for the secretary of state's office told the president on the call that state investigators, law enforcement and the courts looked into claims of illegal votes and found no evidence of widespread fraud that would overturn Trump's narrow loss.

But the president was undeterred.

"All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state," Trump stated at one point. "Flipping the state is a great testament to our country. It's a testament that they can admit to a mistake. A lot of people think it wasn't a mistake, it was much more criminal than that. But it's a big problem in Georgia, and it's not a problem that's going away."

So there you have it folks, recorded first hand, no way of beating about the bush. El Trumpo threatening an elected offical to commit Election Fraud.
Whats one more crime at this point?

Which is fucking hilarious given his incessant tweets alleging voter fraud.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I posted that in the Internal Policy thread

Yeah my bad, Lost track sometimes of whats going on in the other thread there.
How sad is it that over a month, almost 2 months after the election, there still has to even BE an election thread open?

[Tribble]

I posted that in the Internal Policy thread

Yeah my bad, Lost track sometimes of whats going on in the other thread there.
How sad is it that over a month, almost 2 months after the election, there still has to even BE an election thread open?

IMO we have moved beyond the election stage (Biden won), and what we are actually describing is Trump’s attempted self-coup/autogolpe.

Maybe time for a new thread?

[bilateralrope]

At least wait until the Georgia runoffs are done. Those will determine who controls the Senate and Trump's latest phone call might have an effect on them.

[Tribble]

At least wait until the Georgia runoffs are done. Those will determine who controls the Senate and Trump's latest phone call might have an effect on them.

Whoops, too late.


But to be fair, the attempted coup has already been in progress for quite some time now.

The election of the Senators, while related, could be treated as a separate event from Trump’s coup attempt at remaining in office.