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How would you improve the troops chances of survival. We all know the episode showed how woefully undefended the compound is. What Improvements would you make.

Rules...

Weapons from any Sci-fi/Cartoons/Comics but no magic, sorcery, god-powers, no Deux Ex machina or prophets.

The Same number of troops.

The same commanders

The same enemies.

Dennis Toy wrote:How would you improve the troops chances of survival. We all know the episode showed how woefully undefended the compound is. What Improvements would you make.

Rules...

Weapons from any Sci-fi/Cartoons/Comics but no magic, sorcery, god-powers, no Deux Ex machina or prophets.

Are you limiting it to handheld firearms? Because if support weapons, artillery, vehicles, etc. come in, things can get spectacularly lopsided very quickly. (See, e.g., AT-ATs)

Just watched the episode today, actually.

Now, I could say give 'em ROTS Clone Trooper gear, and we'd have a one-sided slaughter. But I'm just gonna give ways that, with Federation or Modern Earth tech, could improve their chance of survival.

First, helmets (how the hell the Federation invested in several new starship classes but not a frickin' K-pot, I'll never know), camo, and infrared goggles (rather than noisy tricorders and their active signals) would be a significant improvement. Even so, the tricorders were still needed to detect and reprogram the Houdinis.

In addition, substituting the old TNG phaser rifles for the First Contact variety would have helped. They were more ergonomic and, IIRC, more accurate.

Lastly, a photon grenade launcher (tech the Feds have but don't use) would have made a nice support weapon when the Jemmies came running and yelling like a bunch of fools.
- Ra

Defense in Depth. Inter connected firing lanes. PDF's, FPL's. Coverage of avenues of approach, coverage of deadspace. Cover. Concealment.


The episode tried, and to a certain extent succeeded, to give the feel of ground combat. But the technicalities of the actual tactics involved were childish and retarded a showed a total lack of knowledge of how manuver warfare or a proper defense is made and operated. But you shouldn't be too surprised since the hacks that write this shit don't know dick about how naval ships operate or personel or goverments or characters or.................

I would replace the entire group with Spartan IIs, with an assortment of standard equiptment, and a single shade turret at the base choke point. Or some biological agents.

Noble Ire wrote:I would replace the entire group with Spartan IIs, with an assortment of standard equiptment, and a single shade turret at the base choke point. Or some biological agents.

I'm going to replace them all with Jedi Masters that have access to an arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons.

I would give them Tommy guns and a single MG-42. Maybe, if I was feeling especially generous, I'd through in half a dozen claymore mines and a flamethrower. It is unfathomable how incompetent Starfleet is at appropriately outfitting its ground troops.

Simply putting some anti-personnel landmines on the ground in the chokepoint would have fucked up those Jem'Hadar but good. Adding a heavy repeating weapon to hose down the chokepoint would have also helped.

And of course, getting some of your men into an elevated position might have been useful. Unfortunately, it's been too long since I've seen the episode, and I don't recall the layout very well.

Dennis Toy wrote:How would you improve the troops chances of survival. We all know the episode showed how woefully undefended the compound is. What Improvements would you make.

Rules...

Weapons from any Sci-fi/Cartoons/Comics but no magic, sorcery, god-powers, no Deux Ex machina or prophets.

The Same number of troops.

The same commanders

The same enemies.

This scenario is ridiculous. Two or three general purpose machine guns could have slaughtered the entire Jem'Hadar force and had ammunition to spare. Anything more than that is just overkill.

Are Jem'Hadar immune to poison gas? Because if they aren't, chemical warfare suits for the redshirts and VX shells (and guns to fire them, since the Federation also has no artillery) should stop the Jemmies and break the siege in no time.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:I would replace the entire group with Spartan IIs, with an assortment of standard equiptment, and a single shade turret at the base choke point. Or some biological agents.

I'm going to replace them all with Jedi Masters that have access to an arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons.

He asked didnt he?

How would you improve the troops chances of survival. We all know the episode showed how woefully undefended the compound is. What Improvements would you make.

Rules...

Weapons from any Sci-fi/Cartoons/Comics but no magic, sorcery, god-powers, no Deux Ex machina or prophets.

The Same number of troops.

The same commanders

The same enemies.


This scenario is ridiculous. Two or three general purpose machine guns could have slaughtered the entire Jem'Hadar force and had ammunition to spare. Anything more than that is just overkill.

Are Jem'Hadar immune to poison gas? Because if they aren't, chemical warfare suits for the redshirts and VX shells (and guns to fire them, since the Federation also has no artillery) should stop the Jemmies and break the siege in no time.

didnt you read, the same number of troops, the same commanders. We can't change the numbers.




Me i would.


Create a physical barrier ( Build a wall ) around AR-558, the wall would be equipped with Night-Vision, Infrared and EM scanners that would detect on-coming personell. This would be linked to an AI with Biometric capabilities so we could determine the good guys from the bad ones.

I'd not only line the corridor with mines, i would also place Robotic Sentry Guns from Aliens around the compound and at the entrance and modify them to fire brute force phasers at them. They would also be linked to the AI so we wouldnt kill friendlies but only the enemy.

Also arm the troops with Phasers that emphasize brute force.

Simply putting some anti-personnel landmines on the ground in the chokepoint would have fucked up those Jem'Hadar but good. Adding a heavy repeating weapon to hose down the chokepoint would have also helped.

Aliens Robot Sentry Guns would be appropriate for this one Mr Wong.

Remember those stupid phase cloaking mines that popped in and out of existence? Well, instead you have a remote controlled on/off switch for the phase cloak. You wait until the Jemmies pass through the phased minefield and then you turn the cloak off and open up with a machinegun. They panic and run straight into the minefield that wasn't there before. Nowhere to run, 100% casualties.

It also works if you phase the mines in while they're standing in the middle of the field.

Heck any WWI or higher twenty man squad could have won this easily. Supiror weapons backed up with automatic fire and some kind of tatical knoweledge and they would have been fucked.

Try any late 19th century 20 man squad. Just one piece of late 19th century equipment, with sufficient ammunition, would have turned the battle into a one sided slaughter: The Maxim Gun

Adrian Laguna wrote:Try any late 19th century 20 man squad. Just one piece of late 19th century equipment, with sufficient ammunition, would have turned the battle into a one sided slaughter: The Maxim Gun

Yes, Germanys finest with mixed K98s, mp40s and Mg34-42s completey one sided slaughter, your right a mixed matchup of earily 19th century bolt actions combined with the first massed produced MG would have been nearly as bad.

Just give them FORCE equipment .

A big wall, mines and a E-web blaster (from SW) to generate kill points.

If you want to use equipment just from Star Trek, what about the weapons mentioned in "The Omega Glory" (discussed here)? If just four of those were able to hold off and kill thousands of Yangs... how many Jem'Hadar were attacking AR-558?

mines across the choke point. Snipers with scoped rifles in an elevated postition dug in troops with two MG-3s if I was feeling evil and nasty add in a M-2 with the snipers and claymores along the obvious paths of retreat for the Jem Hdar.

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:If you want to use equipment just from Star Trek, what about the weapons mentioned in "The Omega Glory" (discussed here)? If just four of those were able to hold off and kill thousands of Yangs... how many Jem'Hadar were attacking AR-558?

Those were TOS hand phasers. (There is some debate about wether or not Tracy (IIRC it was Tracy) was exaggurating or not, but it does seem like he killed a large number of Yangs) TOS got many things right that later eras didn't, and phaser weaponry was one of them. Despite the lack of iron sights these weapons were easier to aim and carried significantly greater fire power, perhaps allowing effective hosing action (sweeping the beam from side to side). Such weapons and tactics would surely have aided the Feds at the seige--simply widening the beam slightly to cover the entire chockpoint from range would have done the job as I am fairly certain TOS hand weaponry carried the punch needed to kill on widebeam settings.*

*I say this because ordinary "kill" causes total phasorization--even 2% of the magic fairy dust that makes that happen is likely fatal...


As for the topic, well it's been said but any kind of high refire weapon would have been ideal. Even the phasers present were enough, it just seemed no one knew how to use them. Consider: we have seen phasers blast large amounts of rock, if several phaser rifles were set to maximum and targeted the chockpoint the secondary effects should have been nasty. Rock slides, searing temperatures, all could be created at that choke point--if one phaser can heat a few kilos of rock to glowing in seconds several rifles could turn the choke point into a 900 degree oven in short order, passing through that would be a challenge for any jem hadar, superheated air burns lungs, clothing may burst into flames, second or third degree skin burns, disrupted vision etc. For what price? A small percentage of the phaser's energy.

Or how about widebeam stuns? If several rifles are firing repeated exposure would be deadly, and covering the entire chokepoint becomes easy.

A little imagination would have gone a long way with the weapons they had.

Hand Sisco a BAR? Or maybe a Tompson?

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:If you want to use equipment just from Star Trek, what about the weapons mentioned in "The Omega Glory" (discussed here)? If just four of those were able to hold off and kill thousands of Yangs... how many Jem'Hadar were attacking AR-558?

It also helps that back then, men were men, women wore miniskirts, and starfleet officers kicked ass.

I would access the computer's historical archives, and replicated these ancient human weapons called M-249 Squad Automatic Weapons and M-240G medium machine guns. Put a pair of 240G's on that choke point and no Jem'Hadar is getting through ever. The SAWs are just the icing on the cake. If I was really sadistic, I would replicate nerve gas, gas mask (for Starfleet, since they seem to have no organic NBC assets), and flame throwers. Basically, anything prior to the creation of the Federation (or that bastard show, Enterprise).

Noble Ire wrote:I would replace the entire group with Spartan IIs, with an assortment of standard equiptment, and a single shade turret at the base choke point. Or some biological agents.

That is what I would do.
Since I can't change commanders, I would have him hide in a closet with his phaser until the gunfire stops.

I would replace Nog and Jake who go out to scout the Jem Hadar with Spartan's with Sniper Rifles who would eliminate their officers before they could react and cloak.

As far as the Jem Hadar Charge
Put two Spartans on machine guns, sorry but I don't know their designation.
Arm the rest with shotguns and battle rifles.

From ANY Sci-Fi? Book MI suits. That, or just give one guy a Culture FYT suit.

But, In-universe, replace the Feddies equipment with Movie-era stuff + tranining. Notably, some movie-era guys had body armour, the phasers are aimable and you've got the (old, but still likely servicable) mortars and the enormous TOS weird big gun rock-cracking device.