Why the flagship?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-05-12 12:17am

No, this thread is not about the tired old "hurr hurr no flag officers on board not a flagship" argument.

Why was it decided at some point to make the Enterprise the "Federation flagship"? Was it purely a "oh hey this sounds cool" decision or did the production staff seriously think "best ship = flagship"?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-05-12 12:25am

Probably because it sounds cool.

Plus, they did make the old emblem of the ToS Enterprise into the starfleet symbol so maybe after that went into effect the Enterprise was always Starfleet's flag ship because of tradition.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-05-12 12:27am

IIRC it didn't become the flagship until later. It was the exploits of the NX Enterprise and the original Starfleet Enterprise that made the name famous enough to keep going.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2005-05-12 12:58am

I don't think having all the flagships named Enterprise cause one of them was captained by the best captain Starfleet ever had,NCC-1701 B had a mediocre captain.

Ra · Post by Ra » 2005-05-12 01:09am

I don't have any proof of this, but wasn't the Excelsior the flagship after the E-A got retired?
- Ra

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-05-12 01:35am

Okay, is there honestly any mention during TOS of NCC 1701 being the Federation flagship? I don't know of any mention of any Enterprise being referred to as the UFP flagship until TNG, and the Ent-D.

Ra · Post by Ra » 2005-05-12 02:10am

Actually, no, not that I'm aware of.
- Ra

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-12 03:14am

I suppose since it only was slapped on in TNG I think, I suppose it could mean that the ship was the 'model' ship, the one that kinda.. um. Shows the flag or something? Beats me. Since they don't operate squadrons or regular ship formations for the conventional use of the term flagship, right?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-05-12 07:34am

The continuing exploits of the namesake, that by the time of the Ent-D decided that it should becomethe flagship/premier ship.

We could assume Ent-B and Ent-C might have filled this role but no mention was ever mentioned.

So to answer Uraniun235...both. from all appearance the best ship = flagship(continues pretty much with Ent-E) and it sounded cool.

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-05-12 08:59am

the writers didn't know what a "flagship" is and I guess they thought that it sounded cool too.

it's a shame really

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-05-12 09:05am

Jarl Sven wrote:the writers didn't know what a "flagship" is and I guess they thought that it sounded cool too.

Obviously, some of them knew what it meant, since both the Fesarius and Qo'nos One are correctly identified as flagships.

Memory Alpha offers this explanation :

Term referring to the status of a starship in many military powers fleets, including Starfleet. A flagship is a starship personally selected by an admiral as his personal starship. A flagship may be commandeered by her admiral at any time. Flagship can also refer to the most important ship in the fleet at any given time. During her lifetime, the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) was considered the flagship of Starfleet, even though she was not commanded by any admiral.

Perhaps the definition was loosened between now and 2371.

Incidentally, was the E-D referred to as "flagship" by anyone except the Duras sisters ?

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-05-12 09:28am

Bounty wrote: ......
Obviously, some of them knew what it meant, since both the Fesarius and Qo'nos One are correctly identified as flagships....

Different sets of writers...sometimes they get lucky

and even those two ships didn't have flag officers aboard or fleets or squadrons to lead (although the General Chang could be considered the equivalent of an admiral in some sort of combined service organization)

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-05-12 09:45am

Bounty wrote:Incidentally, was the E-D referred to as "flagship" by anyone except the Duras sisters ?

Admiral Nakamura in "The Measure Of A Man" referred to her as the Federation flagship.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-05-12 10:25am

It could the flagship in the way the HMS Hood was the preimeir show off ship for the British navy.

Of course a fleet flagship is intended to be the ship with the highest ranking officer onboard in any fleet. So if the Admirial is on board a submarine it is the flagship of the fleet.

The Kronos One is more like the Klingon Version of Air Force One

Akira · Post by **Akira** » 2005-05-12 11:18am

Wasn't the USS Defiant the flagship for Operation Return?

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-05-12 12:20pm

Personally I'm on the boat that "flagship" in Starfleet means the most important/powerful ship currently in service.

In TNG being assigned to the Ent-D, when we heard characters talk about it was like it was a wonder assignment, the best any officer could hope for in the fleet (even above the other Galaxy-class ships). It was during TNG, the most important ship in the fleet.

During TOS the Enterprise, didn't strike me as a flagship. It was a ship among a dozen others, doing the same job. Sure, it had some high-level diplomatic functions ("Journey to Babel"), but I don't think it was any assignment that couldn't have gone to another Connie. The class of vessel seemed to carry more distinction than the individual ship.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-05-12 01:08pm

Could it be that by "Flagship" they mean the ship that represents the parasgon of what Federation ships are meant to be at the time, like a "Flagship Macdonals store"? I find it perfectly possible that the interpretation of the word will have loosened by that time as a lot of words are known to do this sort of trick, like swear words becoming less offensive and the softening of vowels. It happens.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2005-05-12 02:06pm

It's not likely the writers would even recognize the idea that word meanings can shift over time, let alone use that concept for such a minor detail as this. I don't see a lot of evidence to indicate that characters on the shows use any other words differently than we do today, or at least not in ways that can't be explained as the writers misunderstanding terminology. It's much more likely that they simply use the term "flagship" because it sounds impressive, not because they think the Enterprise does anything real flagships do.

To be honest, I think portraying the Enterprise as a legitimate flagship would have been interesting. The admiral who uses her as a flagship could have been a recurring character. While in most episodes, Picard would command her on more mundane missions, some of the ones involving politics or dealing with the Federation's neighbors could entail the admiral taking command and Picard helping him, or trying to help him without overstepping his authority. It might confine the Enterprise to one particular area of Federation space and its environs, but a lot of what they encountered could conceivably lie in the same area of space. Also, it would have allowed for some things to be developed that weren't.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-05-12 02:22pm

The Kronos One is more like the Klingon Version of Air Force One

That's obviously the idea, but unlike AF1, it's also a fully functional, top-of-the-line battlecruiser.

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-05-12 03:05pm

yes and while Beatty used a battlecruiser for his flag

Jellicoe, the C-in-C, did not

wet navy nomenclature has a long and complex history. While applying it to space gives the writer and viewer a frame of reference, it can be problematic. Terms such as battleship or frigate have changed over time (and who knows what if anything they may mean in the 24th century) but a flagship has pretty much always been one carrying a flag officer.
Thus an admiral in charge of a destroyer squadron might fly his flag from a light cruiser or the commodore of a convoy might set up shop on a destroyer.

I suppose the TNG writers were merely trying to give the Ent-D an honorific or pride of place.

Sidious · Post by **Sidious** » 2005-05-12 05:41pm

Incidentally, was the E-D referred to as "flagship" by anyone except the Duras sisters ?

Picard himself called Ent-D the flagship in "Generations".

Picard wrote:They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon Bird of Prey is any match for the Federation flagship

Sadly, it was more than a match.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-05-12 06:06pm

only with Riker Stupidhead in command! The E-D should have been able to ice the Stupid Bird of Prey with one volley!

Ra · Post by Ra » 2005-05-12 06:32pm

While Star Trek: Generations is what introduced me to the franchise, I'll never forgive them for blowing up the E-D.

Anyway, was the E-E ever called the flagship on the movies? I don't think I recall, even though it's a foregone conclusion that she would replace her fallen predecessor in that role.
- Ra

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-05-12 07:05pm

Bounty wrote:Incidentally, was the E-D referred to as "flagship" by anyone except the Duras sisters ?

LaForge referred to it as the flagship in TNG Data's Day.[/i]

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2005-05-12 07:55pm

Bounty wrote:
That's obviously the idea, but unlike AF1, it's also a fully functional, top-of-the-line battlecruiser.

But these are the Klingons after all - if it can't literally obliterate the opposite , it isn't a "real" ship worthy of the leader's presence.