"It could take hours!"

[brianeyci]

Yes, this thread is about the following dialogue in ST:VI.

Spock : Then we will visually inspect each torpedo.

Scotty : That could take hours!

Now, does this line of dialogue mean anything? In the new Ent series, we see torpedoes are stored in "racks". In ST:II we see torpedoes are lowered down some crane into torpedo tubes. Could it mean that torpedoes are stored in some sort of special storage area to prevent accidental detonation, meaning each torpedo has to be brought out individually one by one and then put back in? Or does it mean that the Ent-Nil had way more torpedoes than Ent-D, on the order of a thousand or so torpedoes?

At the very least, it shows that they do not store torpedoes in racks like in Ent by the Ent-Nil time period, or Valaris or Scotty or whoever could just get 100 crewmen and finish the visual inspection in 15 minutes.

Brian

[Darth Wong]

They probably have some kind of "robot warehouse" system. Presumably the photon torpedoes are volatile enough to warrant special storage procedures, so they are not easily or quickly moved around and hand-inspected.

This would also explain why the goddamned photon torpedo launchers go "off-line" so fucking easily in combat. If there's some complicated, slow, and delicate storage and conveyor system for the photon torpedoes it would make sense that any damage to the general area would shut it down. Frankly, the way torpedoes are described to work (and given their stated accelerative capabilities), you'd think they should be able to push one out of an airlock and just let it fire its own engines in an emergency.

[brianeyci]

They probably have some kind of "robot warehouse" system. Presumably the photon torpedoes are volatile enough to warrant special storage procedures, so they are not easily or quickly moved around and hand-inspected.

Not necessarily that photon torpedoes are volatile by themselves just sitting there, but they may be dangerous in combat. I know real explosives don't explode by themselves, but what about antimatter explosives? I read in a thread that each individual particle of antimatter would have to be isolated, showing again the Fed's reliance on active systems. Now if torpedoes were not stored in some sort of special hardened area, a hull breach or a torpedo going off in the area could mean 275 antimatter detonations.

Another possibility is that torpedoes are not armed and are armed as they are fired. We've heard of "photon torpedo casings" being stolen by aliens in Voyager, why did she call them casings and not photon torpedoes? Presumably there is a state which the torpedoes are considered mere shells.

This would also explain why the goddamned photon torpedo launchers go "off-line" so fucking easily in combat. If there's some complicated, slow, and delicate storage and conveyor system for the photon torpedoes it would make sense that any damage to the general area would shut it down. Frankly, the way torpedoes are described to work (and given their stated accelerative capabilities), you'd think they should be able to push one out of an airlock and just let it fire its own engines in an emergency.

There are many possibilities. We've also seen Miles just sit with Worf next to some torpedoes. Perhaps torpedoes require some special system to arm them and cannot just be thrown out an airlock, and it is this system that is damaged rather than the complicated/delicate conveyor system. In DS9, its hard to imagine the same conveyor system as in ST:II with DS9's rapid firing torpedo launchers.

Brian

[brianeyci]

They can't just pull crewmen off other duties, so getting 100 of them is not going to happen.

Are you kidding me, they pulled a hundred guys to "search the ship from bow to stern" for those boots! If Spock clicked his heels he could have ordered 300 men to search the ship!

So they would have to check where ever they are stored, make sure they have not been replaced with fakes, probably check the serial numbers or something, and have numerous overseers to make sure the traitor doesn't falsify his report. That could take hours.

This is a good point, Spock probably only trusted his senior officers to conduct the search, and those with the technical knowledge would be Valaris and Scotty.

Brian

[Lord Revan]

How many Photon torps does the NX-class has (there don't seem to bee that many in the armory set). If there's ten torps in racks and two in the tubes and the NX-01 has 40 torps in total, there's 28 torp somewere else in ships. Now the NCC-1701-A has 4 tubes and no visible racks, so if the Connie has 150 torp that's between 146-150 torps you have count with out the computer.

[Batman]

Err-since when does the refit Constitution have four torpedo tubes? To my knowledge we never see her use anything but the twin launcher at the base of the connecting spar.

[Uraniun235]

Err-since when does the refit Constitution have four torpedo tubes? To my knowledge we never see her use anything but the twin launcher at the base of the connecting spar.

This is probably derived from a burst of two torpedos from one of the tubes in Star Trek 3.

Another possibility is that torpedoes are not armed and are armed as they are fired. We've heard of "photon torpedo casings" being stolen by aliens in Voyager, why did she call them casings and not photon torpedoes? Presumably there is a state which the torpedoes are considered mere shells.

The TNG technical manual suggests that torpedos are not in and of themselves live ordnance, but rather are armed with antimatter only when loaded into the torpedo tubes.

[Zor]

They can't just pull crewmen off other duties, so getting 100 of them is not going to happen.

Are you kidding me, they pulled a hundred guys to "search the ship from bow to stern" for those boots! If Spock clicked his heels he could have ordered 300 men to search the ship!

And your proff is were?

Zor

[Lancer]

it was argued that at that time, the Federation would likely not have used untrained personnel to do an inventory of the torpedo stores, thus negating this point.

[Alan Bolte]

Another possibility is that torpedoes are not armed and are armed as they are fired. We've heard of "photon torpedo casings" being stolen by aliens in Voyager, why did she call them casings and not photon torpedoes? Presumably there is a state which the torpedoes are considered mere shells.

The TNG technical manual suggests that torpedos are not in and of themselves live ordnance, but rather are armed with antimatter only when loaded into the torpedo tubes.

Given variable yields, this seems far more likely.

[Lord Revan]

Err-since when does the refit Constitution have four torpedo tubes? To my knowledge we never see her use anything but the twin launcher at the base of the connecting spar.

This is probably derived from a burst of two torpedos from one of the tubes in Star Trek 3.

no there's labels for torpedo tubes 1,2,3 and 4 in STII

[Isolder74]

basically the four tubes are positioned in two pair of two tubes side by side. we only ever see one torpedo room but they must have four of them.

Anyway the room the torpedos are stored in must be quite cramped quarters. It is implied that Scotty did the inspection all by himself. It does not surprise me Spock only trusted Scotty to do this job.

[Lord Revan]

basically the four tubes are positioned in two pair of two tubes side by side. we only ever see one torpedo room but they must have four of them.

Anyway the room the torpedos are stored in must be quite cramped quarters. It is implied that Scotty did the inspection all by himself. It does not surprise me Spock only trusted Scotty to do this job.

Think there's two real and two "virtual" tubes (in STIII E-nil fires 2 torp so fast that it must have a pulse fire launcher). so The Enterprise can fire 2 torp volley, but it can fire two of volleys before reloading). (it can usefull it can make an enemy captain think "He needs reload before he can fire torps, so I can brind my weak shield towards him so I can fire my weapons better" then go "oh shit" when you fire a second pair of torp.

[brianeyci]

How many Photon torps does the NX-class has (there don't seem to bee that many in the armory set). If there's ten torps in racks and two in the tubes and the NX-01 has 40 torps in total, there's 28 torp somewere else in ships. Now the NCC-1701-A has 4 tubes and no visible racks, so if the Connie has 150 torp that's between 146-150 torps you have count with out the computer.

We don't know how many torpedoes the Connie has, but considering it was meant as a deterrent against the Klingons and go for months to years without pitstops (our five-year mission...), and that it was the only warship in the TOS era (all warships were connies, reference that episode where M-5 fought four connies), there could be many more than 150 torpedoes.

The only thing we can conclude for sure from that quotation is that the Connie does not store its torpedoes in racks, or it would be trivially easy to count all the torpedoes. So, reaching any conclusions based on racks present on a ship a hundred years the Connie's predessor doesn't make any sense.

Even if the torpedoes were stored in some sort of walk-in room, they would be trivially easy to count. Of course, Scotty could be exagerrating, but if he was most likely Spock would have gone "Please Mr. Scotty, you're exagerrating." There may be another possibility, that the Connie has a large number of torpedoes, compounding the problem of counting them.

Brian

[Stark]

Virtual tubes? They've got two pairs. Each pair - two, individual, single-fire launchers. They can fire four before requiring mechanical reloading.

*hides before Alyeska shows up*

[Vohu Manah]

The only thing we can conclude for sure from that quotation is that the Connie does not store its torpedoes in racks, or it would be trivially easy to count all the torpedoes. So, reaching any conclusions based on racks present on a ship a hundred years the Connie's predessor doesn't make any sense.

Even if the torpedoes were stored in some sort of walk-in room, they would be trivially easy to count. Of course, Scotty could be exagerrating, but if he was most likely Spock would have gone "Please Mr. Scotty, you're exagerrating." There may be another possibility, that the Connie has a large number of torpedoes, compounding the problem of counting them.

Part exaggeration, part serious. They were probably double checking serial/part numbers (assuming that was tracked) and such (like making sure all the torpedos were real and not mock-ups to hide the deception), which adds to your time.

[Uraniun235]

Should be noted that we once saw a volley of six torpedos in a TOS episode. (Elaan of Troyius, I think...)

[Col. Crackpot]

Torpedoes appear to be stored in a magazine above the torpedo tube control room ( you know that stupid room in ST:II where redshirts are seen lifting a mesh floor off of a ridiculusly long loading track.) and are lowered onto a loading track before sliding forward into the actual tube.