The Replicator

[Jon]

I've been writing an article on the economy of the Federation and have been doing some research into how exactly the replicator works. It's my understanding that patterns are stored only at the molecular level (anything less and memory requirements would rocket).

The main conflicting opinions I am coming across are

a) The replicator is a molecular level conversion device, supported by facts such as recycling products back in to the system and the inability to create complex subatomic strcutures.

b) The replicators use another method to form products, supported in part by an episode of DS9 (which I am yet to reference and cannot consider canon yet), where it is stated that the need to carry oxygen on starships was eliminated with the introduction of replicators, which regulate oxygen levels, creating it as needed and destoying CO2. Tthe apparent lack of bulk raw matter storage for energy conversion and reformation, on Starships falls on to this side.

What are your thoughts or what do you know? I only just started looking into this so maybe this has been explored and answered with canon referencing before (if you have an accepted method already then it saves me speculating and sifting through reliable sources), any answers you may have would be great

[Jon]

Actually, I do recall hearing various references in Trek to 'Oxygen running out'- has this been said while aboard a Starfleet vessel? First that coms to mind is the Son'a ship in Insurrection

[Patrick Degan]

b) The replicators use another method to form products, supported in part by an episode of DS9 (which I am yet to reference and cannot consider canon yet), where it is stated that the need to carry oxygen on starships was eliminated with the introduction of replicators, which regulate oxygen levels, creating it as needed and destoying CO2. The apparent lack of bulk raw matter storage for energy conversion and reformation, on Starships falls on to this side.

That's insane. What shit-for-brains writer thought of that one?

[drachefly]

Which aspect is insane? The use of replicators as CO2 scrubbers seems reasonable, considering they replicate up their food. Or did you mean that its insane that there are no bulk material storage areas?

[Patrick Degan]

Which aspect is insane? The use of replicators as CO2 scrubbers seems reasonable, considering they replicate up their food. Or did you mean that its insane that there are no bulk material storage areas?

And what happens if the replicator system malfunctions? Bang goes your air recycling. The lack of bulk-material storage is unrealistic in the extreme; something has to provide the basis for anything the replicator does. There should be at least one system on a starship which is a simple, dumb mechanism not dependent on the computers or the mains to function and I'd think something as trivial as life support would fit that requirement. Common sense, actually.

[drachefly]

Ah. I figured that since there are lots and lots of little replicators around the ship, that would count as adequate redundancy.

Of course, that leaves you in trouble if the power system goes out for a while... it would be nice to have a less power-intensive form of CO2 scrubbing.

[Prozac the Robert]

The air-recyclers could be perpose built replicator-like devices, possibly with independant power supplies, or at least batteries.

No need to use the actual food replicators.

[Patrick Degan]

The air-recyclers could be perpose built replicator-like devices, possibly with independant power supplies, or at least batteries.

No need to use the actual food replicators.

The point is they shouldn't be replicators at all. The idea itself is stupid at its base. Bog-standard scrubbers and filters work quite nicely and don't need a computer to function.

[Stark]

Refering to the OP, I don't see why replicators wouldn't be able to crack CO2 down into oxygen. Sure they have problems with complex structures (and I'm certainly not arguing that replicators are alchemy or anything) but CO2 -> O2 + C seems pretty simple.

Its still a fucking stupid idea. I bet they've got no chemical backups either.

[Trogdor]

The idea is stupid, and knowing the Federation, they probably do it because they feel that "replicated" air is fresher and more pleasant than air that's been through low tech filters and the like.

[Mark S]

Whatever it is, it seems that lifesupport and gravity are the only two robust systems on the ship. They hardly ever fail completely, even when the rest of the ship is about to fall apart.

[LadyTevar]

I thought all ships had a hydrophonics garden for oxygen production. The TOS Enterprise often showed off the gardens, but I can't recall gardens on TNG Enterprise.

[Isolder74]

I thought all ships had a hydrophonics garden for oxygen production. The TOS Enterprise often showed off the gardens, but I can't recall gardens on TNG Enterprise.

We did see the arboridum on the E-D, but that was more recreational than serving a needed purpose. Besides, I think plants wouldn't be efficient for oxygen on a starship anyways, right?

The plants are fairly effiecient but you have to take into account the bacteria growing in the soil. This is something Biosphere II forgot and they had problems. Algea is actually more efficient, but both are only feasable if you use natural light as you do not get as much of an return on the energy. In most cases a simple airscrubber pack and filters will do more per pound of weight carried than the plants will. the only nice benefit of the plants is you can eat the fruit, ect.

[Darth Wong]

I've been writing an article on the economy of the Federation and have been doing some research into how exactly the replicator works. It's my understanding that patterns are stored only at the molecular level (anything less and memory requirements would rocket).

The main conflicting opinions I am coming across are

a) The replicator is a molecular level conversion device, supported by facts such as recycling products back in to the system and the inability to create complex subatomic strcutures.

They can't form certain molecular structures either, such as complex organic vaccines.

b) The replicators use another method to form products, supported in part by an episode of DS9 (which I am yet to reference and cannot consider canon yet), where it is stated that the need to carry oxygen on starships was eliminated with the introduction of replicators, which regulate oxygen levels, creating it as needed and destoying CO2. Tthe apparent lack of bulk raw matter storage for energy conversion and reformation, on Starships falls on to this side.

Conversion of CO2 to its component parts is a simple chemical reaction, and hardly indicates that replicators don't need raw material storage. If anything it only proves the point: replicators are only capable of doing what chemical reactions would otherwise do: crudely rearrange atoms at the molecular level.

[Darth Wong]

Ah. I figured that since there are lots and lots of little replicators around the ship, that would count as adequate redundancy.

Since they all tend to fail or screw up at once, that does not follow. In DS9, there seemed to be only two replicator systems (from the Aphasia-virus episode): the command-level replicators and the civilian-level replicators. The fact that there are multiple terminals does not mean they are completely segregated from one another, any more than the multiple running-water taps in your house mean that they are not connected to the same piping.

[SirNitram]

I thought all ships had a hydrophonics garden for oxygen production. The TOS Enterprise often showed off the gardens, but I can't recall gardens on TNG Enterprise.

We did see the arboridum on the E-D, but that was more recreational than serving a needed purpose. Besides, I think plants wouldn't be efficient for oxygen on a starship anyways, right?

The plants are fairly effiecient but you have to take into account the bacteria growing in the soil. This is something Biosphere II forgot and they had problems. Algea is actually more efficient, but both are only feasable if you use natural light as you do not get as much of an return on the energy. In most cases a simple airscrubber pack and filters will do more per pound of weight carried than the plants will. the only nice benefit of the plants is you can eat the fruit, ect.

Actually, the real problems in Biosphere II all revolve around the concrete. It soaked up CO2 as it 'cured'. This seemed good at first, because those in charge weren't thinking clearly; CO2 is not a debt and O2 is not a credit. You need the CO2 so it can become C and O2.

[General Zod]

Ah. I figured that since there are lots and lots of little replicators around the ship, that would count as adequate redundancy.

Since they all tend to fail or screw up at once, that does not follow. In DS9, there seemed to be only two replicator systems (from the Aphasia-virus episode): the command-level replicators and the civilian-level replicators. The fact that there are multiple terminals does not mean they are completely segregated from one another, any more than the multiple running-water taps in your house mean that they are not connected to the same piping.

would the "industrial" replicators that the bajoran farmers were so hot after in some episode of DS9 fall under command replicators or a separate section? they seemed to be able to do alot more work than the stuff that you'd find aboard a starship or station considering they were being used by entire continents. especially considering bajor was only given one of them and starfleet didn't seem to have too many to spare.

[Bellator]

I always believed they had no bulk because the replicators converted matter from energy, and back again. At least some written work on the subject suggested this.