Enterprise D vs Excalibur

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Ok, so through an act of Q, Picard's Enterprise must battle the Excalibur under Mackenzie Calhoun in orbit of, say, Alpha Ceti 5. Both captains believe the other has turned completely traitor and is planning to kill billions of cute puppies...and some sickly orphans. They are both minutes away from Alpha Ceti 5 approaching at maximum warp for their showdown. Only one ship (at most) may survive. Which one will it be?

Here are some things that I think will make a difference.

Enterprise:

Advantages
-Picard knows Calhoun. He watched him rise through the ranks of starfleet.
-Data has fast reflexes.
-Geordi is an uber-SF engineer.
-Pre-upgrade Galaxy class starship.

Disadvantages
-Picard is not really a strategy kind of captain.
-Troi
-Pre-Upgrade Galaxy class warp core.

Excalibur:

Advantages

-Mackenzie Calhoun is an experienced warrior and strategist.
-Mackenzie Calhoun is 99times more likely to open fire first.
-Commander Shelby
-Mark McHenry has fast reflexes (not as fast as Data) and some skill at "evasive maneuvers."

Disadvantages
-Lefler isn't really the type to put under pressure.
-Excalibur is an Ambassador class starship. It was upgraded somewhat, though.
-Less experienced crew.

Who do you think would take it?

[General Zod]

the excalibur is from that new frontier book series, isn't it?

on a side note, i'm somewhat amused that troi got put into the disadvantages section for no particular reason.

[SCVN 2812]

the excalibur is from that new frontier book series, isn't it?

on a side note, i'm somewhat amused that troi got put into the disadvantages section for no particular reason.

She is the enraging voice of reason that denied viewers the opportunity for ship to ship combat on far too many occassions. History says she will sense something is up and see this rouse for what it is causing the rest of the crew to hestitate just enough to give Calhoun the opening he needs to ensure the E-D's puppy and orphan-cripple killing days are over before they begin.

Whether or not his ship is capable of exploiting the opening is another matter entirely. I'm of the opinion that taking the initiative will level the playing field until Picard decides that whatever Troi's anxieties, Calhoun has decided for him whether or not he is guilty or innocent and start ordering Worf to launch full photon spreads instead of just enough to batter down the shields to allow the E-D to disable Excalibur with pin point phaser strikes.

[Crazedwraith]

-Mark McHenry has fast reflexes (not as fast as Data) and some skill at "evasive maneuvers."

True enough but Data doesn't fly the ship the random no name ensign to his right does.

Deadheat really. Though I'd sooner bet on Calhoun than Against him.

[Bellator]

It would be an even match if the ships were comparable, but the Enterprise is just that much more powerful than the Excalibur.

[Stormbringer]

It would be an even match if the ships were comparable, but the Enterprise is just that much more powerful than the Excalibur.

And a lot more suceptible to combat damage compared to the older vessels. There have been a number of ocassions in which the Ent-D was rendered impotent after retardedly light damage (so much we can't see it on an external veiw) severs a critical control link, computer, rubber phallus, etc, etc.

[Petrosjko]

From one of the recent New Frontier novels, a direct and highly relevant quote from the man himself.

Calhoun- "Actually, my ship could kick his ship's ass."

I'm wagering that Calhoun would find a way.

[Stormbringer]

From one of the recent New Frontier novels, a direct and highly relevant quote from the man himself.

Calhoun- "Actually, my ship could kick his ship's ass."

I'm wagering that Calhoun would find a way.

Probably, the Galaxy has a hideous load of design vulnerabilites that Calhoun would be reasonably aware of. The Ambassadors being an older design, back when Starfleet designed their ships properly to go in harm's way, don't seem to have that issue.

[Alyeska]

Not to mention they've had decades to fix any design quirks that popped up in the Ambassador design.

[Stark]

Are there any canon descriptions of refits applied to Ambassadors? If their weapons and shields kept pace with development, I'd say the Ambassador advantages of smaller profile, probably better maneveurability, etc would come into play.

But Alyeska would say that the phaser strips on Galaxy are longer, thus more powerful.

[Alyeska]

The Galaxy class has newer, larger, and simply more powerful per surface area phaser arrays over the Ambassador. She has newer shields which are also stronger. Last of all she has superior torpedo launchers. Even with the First Flight Galaxy class ships having some issues, Picard should be able to win this battle if he doesn't do anything stupid. Calhoun would have to be having a VERY good day to win this.

[Admiral Drason]

Remember what Kirk did to Kahn, it would be very easy to bring the enterprises shields down and kill it in five seconds.

Picard wouldnt see what hit him. As Kahn said "After all we are one happy fleet."

[Alyeska]

Don't count on that sort of trick happening in a battle like this. Khan didn't know jackshit about the ship he had and he spent time gloating with Kirk. Those situations don't occur here.

[Admiral Drason]

Don't count on that sort of trick happening in a battle like this. Khan didn't know jackshit about the ship he had and he spent time gloating with Kirk. Those situations don't occur here.

Point taken altough I still think that Picard would hesitate. He was always one to ask questions before opening fire.

[Petrosjko]

Question- What class is the new Excalibur? It's not a Sovereign, is it?

[SCVN 2812]

Question- What class is the new Excalibur? It's not a Sovereign, is it?

While I'm not a follower of the series, the cover art is of a standard Galaxy-class. (I.e. no third nacelle and no nacelle mounted phaser strips or anything like that)

[Alyeska]

No, it is an Ambassador. Else wise people wouldn't be arguring about Calhoun's capabilities to get him out of a loosing situation.

[Questor]

No, it is an Ambassador. Else wise people wouldn't be arguring about Calhoun's capabilities to get him out of a loosing situation.

I believe they are talking about the original Excalibur, which was destroyed in (I think) the ninth book of the series. The second Excalibur is Galaxy class, as is the Titan, Captain Shelby's ship.

[Petrosjko]

Okay, if that's the case... assuming it's a post-upgrade GCS, how would the contest play out in a more current context?

Changes would include the Excalibur being a post-upgrade GCS, no more Shelby at first officer, no more McHenry at the helm, Burgoyne as first officer now.

And on the other side, it's the Ent-E, with no more Worf.

One question I wonder about is if Calhoun could maintain enough emotional control to spoof Troi... because he's not above pulling something truly underhanded like faking a surrender.

[Alyeska]

Excalibur:

Disadvantages
-Excalibur is an Ambassador class starship. It was upgraded somewhat, though.

I think that answers all questions.

[Petrosjko]

Excalibur:

Disadvantages
-Excalibur is an Ambassador class starship. It was upgraded somewhat, though.

I think that answers all questions.

Yeah, I understand, but I'm curious about the potential of a matchup utilizing the current vessels and crews as well.

[Crazedwraith]

No, it is an Ambassador. Else wise people wouldn't be arguring about Calhoun's capabilities to get him out of a loosing situation.

I believe they are talking about the original Excalibur, which was destroyed in (I think) the ninth book of the series. The second Excalibur is Galaxy class, as is the Titan, Captain Shelby's ship.

Shelby's ship is the trident. Riker got the titan.

[Durandal]

Ithink I would have to give it to Picard and his Enterprise. Here's why:

If he thinks the other has gone full traitor, he will be ready for the battle and prepared to shoot first.

I can't remember a time when Picard has ever fired first on anyone.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Excalibur:

Disadvantages
-Excalibur is an Ambassador class starship. It was upgraded somewhat, though.

I think that answers all questions.

I don't know. An upgraded Excelsior class was able to bring the badass defiant to its knees. If the Excalibur has been updated in the same spirit as the excelsior and miranda, in that it can still compete with modern ships in terms of firepower, etc, then I think Calhoun's far superior tactical skills will take this.

It may be akin to Sheridan taking out the Blackstar, but I just can't believe that Calhoun will let it degenerate into a fair match.

[Alyeska]

I don't know. An upgraded Excelsior class was able to bring the badass defiant to its knees. If the Excalibur has been updated in the same spirit as the excelsior and miranda, in that it can still compete with modern ships in terms of firepower, etc, then I think Calhoun's far superior tactical skills will take this.

Incorrect. An upgraded Excelsior that was allowed to fire on the Defiant for more then a minute without reaction by the Defiant, then the Defiant fought back rather restrained and was still predicted to destroy the Excelsior in just a couple more shots.

It may be akin to Sheridan taking out the Blackstar, but I just can't believe that Calhoun will let it degenerate into a fair match.

The OP does not specify any circumstances that would give Calhoun the chance to take advantage in a fight.

In a straight up fight against the two were combat is expected, Picard has no reasons not to fire first or at the same time and has a ship that is vastly more powerful and capable then Calhoun’s.