"Borderland" Talkback Thread * Spoilers *

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-30 02:22am

Star Trek: Enterprise -- "Borderland"
Production Number: 404
Synopsis: When genetic supermen left over from the Eugenics Wars hijack a Klingon ship, Archer must rely on their creator, the criminal Dr. Arik Soong, to help hunt them down."

Please wait until the episode has aired in your respective timezone before commenting.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-30 02:29am

Alright, decent entry into the fourth season. Good performance by Brent Spiner and nice commentary on the current stem-cell research crisis. Not too crazy about the slight revision-ism of the Eugenics Wars (Maybe ENT is just trying to go the same route as the Clone Wars

) and ENT's once again constant, blatant sexuality.

Verdict: Despite the best laid plans of mice and men, it's still a piece of shit and Spiner confirmed it with a statement from a few days back on Trek Today:

The veteran Trek actor also discussed how Star Trek was seen as a "dependable cash cow" by Paramount and also as "the idiot-savant child, whom they have no respect for except on a financial basis." Despite this, he seemed to wish nothing but the best for the current show. "I hope these guest shots that are happening on 'Enterprise' make some kind of a difference," he said. "Really, this is going to be their best year. They're coming into their own."

Brent, please don't give them hope; it makes them saying good-bye after this year that much harder.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2004-10-30 03:23am

Good watch. Better than last episode, can't wait for next week.

Power cuffs and the PADD incident mentioned made me

The genetic enhancement and embryo stuff was interesting. Also, why the government does nothing but burn Soong's articles sounds wierd to me. Are they really as amazing as he claims? Does anyone care to take a look?

Arik Soong's relationship to Noonien Soong?!

Eugenics War = Trek Clone Wars?

A panel actually caught fire on the NX-01 when they were attacked. Though probably just burnt in a small area/time.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-30 03:34am

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:Arik Soong's relationship to Noonien Soong?!

Great-grandfather to Data's creator, according to the PTB (or it could be great-great; forgive me if I'm wrong

).

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-10-30 09:59am

I only saw the last 15 minutes or so.

It seemed like a decent enough episode.

Having the Orions in there was nice. It's something that a show dealing with the early exploration of what will become the Federation should encounter.

Some of the stuff from the genetic superman seemed a little too much like the Nietzcheans of Andromeda.

I also didn't find the bit where he told Archer he was going to attack him and then doing so unimpressive. If they wanted that to be impressive they should have made it obvious to Archer that the guy was going to attack him. As it was I thought it looked more like Archer was still thinking "what is this guy talking about? Is he serious?" in response to the guy warning him. To me that didn't show any uberness on the supermen's part other than the guy was plenty strong.

It was also pretty lame that the supermen could take shots from the weapons of the Enterprise crew and just keep coming.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-10-30 12:20pm

Apparently tailoring wasn't among the ubermenchen's super powers.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-10-30 01:18pm

So that's the Orion Syndicate? A bunch of thugs painted green. Not exactly impressive.

An the augments seemed to be a rip off of the Nietzchians from Andromeda.

From the whole strongest leads, genetic superiority, and the women wanting the strongest mate in so blatant a fashion.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-10-30 09:34pm

neoolong wrote:So that's the Orion Syndicate? A bunch of thugs painted green. Not exactly impressive.

An the augments seemed to be a rip off of the Nietzchians from Andromeda.

From the whole strongest leads, genetic superiority, and the women wanting the strongest mate in so blatant a fashion.

Well, since Roddenberry supposedly created Andromeda, it could be that Nietziens are a rip off of the original "genetic supermen" seen in trek. =/

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-10-30 10:28pm

I'm glad they stayed true to form with the Orions. They didn't add any forehead ridges or pointy ears, just green skin like in TOS. Good for them.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-10-30 10:44pm

By the way, you guys realize that that huge Orion slave guard was WWE's Big Show?"

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-10-30 10:59pm

So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS), and his name is Soongh too? The ancestor of the guy who created Data? So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name? Typical B & B...

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-10-30 11:19pm

Superman wrote:So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS), and his name is Soongh too? The ancestor of the guy who created Data? So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name? Typical B & B...

I think this is hardly one of the bigger hoops they've had us jump through. It is a nice way to get Spiner on Enterprise, and it establishes the Soong's have a streak of genius in them a mile wide.

Psycho Smiley · Post by **Psycho Smiley** » 2004-10-30 11:22pm

Superman wrote:So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name?

Actually, it's Khan Noonien Singh. Data's Soong is named Noonien, though.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-30 11:23pm

Superman wrote:So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS), and his name is Soongh too? The ancestor of the guy who created Data? So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name? Typical B & B...

I think you, I, and many others will stick to the Eugenics Wars of the 1990's, yes?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-10-30 11:27pm

Superman wrote:So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS), and his name is Soongh too? The ancestor of the guy who created Data? So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name? Typical B & B...

No, Khan is Khan some N-word Singh. Singh is the traditional name for all Sikhs, which we can presume Khan is.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-10-31 01:16am

Superman wrote:By the way, you guys realize that that huge Orion slave guard was WWE's Big Show?"

Yes, I noticed that when they showed the special guest credit for Big Show at the beginning. Was wondering who he would play.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2004-10-31 01:46am

Was it just me, or the Orion males were a bunch of Shrek Ogres?

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2004-10-31 03:30am

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Superman wrote:So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS), and his name is Soongh too? The ancestor of the guy who created Data? So now they're tying up why Kahn and Dr. Soongh have the same last name? Typical B & B...
No, Khan is Khan some N-word Singh. Singh is the traditional name for all Sikhs, which we can presume Khan is.

They flat out say he was a Sikh in Space Seed

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-10-31 07:10am

I think you, I, and many others will stick to the Eugenics Wars of the 1990's, yes?

The episode did state that the original augments were from the 20th century, if I heard correctly.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-31 11:11am

Bellator wrote:
I think you, I, and many others will stick to the Eugenics Wars of the 1990's, yes?
The episode did state that the original augments were from the 20th century, if I heard correctly.

Yes, but they made is sound as if the Eugenics Wars had happened only a few decades into the past.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-10-31 11:54am

Thats the sort of difficulty that you run in to when we've passed the time where the Eugenics wars happened in RL.

Just chalk it up to the fact that we are viewing this particular version of trek in a different timeline than the one from TOS or TNG. Some things are similar, but some are completely different.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-10-31 02:06pm

Sadly, the makers have specificly staten that Enterprise takes place in the established Star Trek timeline, and doesn't have it's own seperate, parrallel timeline.

So what do we have?

TOS: reference to the Eugenics Wars taking place in 1990s.
DS9: reference to the Eugenics Wars taking place in 22nd century.
ENT: reference to augments being from the 20th century, however it's hinted that the Eugenics Wars took place in the early 22nd century.

What to make of this?

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2004-10-31 02:40pm

Superman wrote:So this dude created the genetic supermen, including Kahn Soongh (from TOS)

No.

Soong worked at a top secret medical research station, where Earth kept genetically modified embryos from the 20th century (leftovers of the Eugenics Wars), when he took them away and raised them "as his children".

Where was it hinted that Eugenics Wars took place in the 22nd century? I didn't notice any such thing in the episode, though it's possible I wasn't paying attention.

TrekWarsie · Post by **TrekWarsie** » 2004-10-31 04:00pm

I believe, I don't remember where it was said exactly, that DS9, and a even Enterprise indicate that the Eugenics Wars took place either during WWIII or right before WWIII. If the latter happened, the Eugenics Wars could have been the catalyst of WWIII.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-10-31 05:51pm

Bellator wrote:Sadly, the makers have specificly staten that Enterprise takes place in the established Star Trek timeline, and doesn't have it's own seperate, parrallel timeline.

So what do we have?

TOS: reference to the Eugenics Wars taking place in 1990s.
DS9: reference to the Eugenics Wars taking place in 22nd century.
ENT: reference to augments being from the 20th century, however it's hinted that the Eugenics Wars took place in the early 22nd century.

What to make of this?

Well obviously this isn't the same timeline. The presence of the Borg and the fact that the eugenics wars didn't take place in the 90s pretty much gaurantees its not the same timeline regardless of what is said outside of the cannon.