"Fair Haven"

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-24 03:51pm

I know this has been covered before, and I even did a search... even the archive board, but I couldn't find the info!

At any rate, I am in a debate with someone over at ST.com and this is what he wrote:

TGBO wrote:And now the bad news:
In episode "Fair Haven" Voyager runs into "Borg classification 34792 particle density anomaly", (a very big blue energy storm flying towards them) formed by "collision of two neutron stars". When they fly into the storm their shields were taking 30 million terajoules. This number rapidly escalated through 60 mln TJ to 90 mln TJ, and at this point shield failed.
According to this page, one megaton equals 4.2 x 10^15 joule, or 4200 terajoules.

And simple dividing tells us that we need approximately 21430 gigatons to bring Voyagers shields down.

I already corrected him on that it should be ~21 GT instead of 21,430 GT.

But my question is: Is this actually what happened and was it just a freak incident? I don't have the episode handy, but this seems to be far above what normal Trek ships are capable of.

Again, I know this has been covered, and I am sorry.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-24 04:04pm

From what I remember last time this was debated they screwed up the energy terms and described things incorrectly. If memory serves, technicaly what was said is giberish. If you attempt to explain what they mean the best you get was what you just pointed out. Thats the highest you can calc from that incident.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-24 05:44pm

In future, when someone does something like that, ask for a direct excerpt from the script, and exact word-for-word dialogue, including several lines before and after.

It's amazing how many "accidental" misinterpretations of Trek dialogue will either be cleared up by that information or cast into doubt when the person starts making excuses for his inability to provide it (after all, if he doesn't have the exact quotes, how can he say with certainty what happened in the episode?)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-24 05:46pm

Mike, I've seen the direct quote before and a half dozen people imediately pointed out that it was giberish. We can safely ignore the event entirely.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-24 05:51pm

Alyeska wrote:Mike, I've seen the direct quote before and a half dozen people imediately pointed out that it was giberish. We can safely ignore the event entirely.

I know, I'm just giving a generalized tip.

I'm just pointing out to Techno that in general, whenever someone says "we saw this" but can't or won't provide exact quotes, it's a good idea to call him on it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-24 05:52pm

Even if we did take this quote, its still below ICS level.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-24 06:07pm

Thanks Alyeska, and thanks for the tip Darth.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-10-25 03:29am

Darth Wong wrote:I'm just pointing out to Techno that in general, whenever someone says "we saw this" but can't or won't provide exact quotes, it's a good idea to call him on it.

Yup. That used to shut down Lord Edam, Elim, and yes, Chris O' Farrell real quick.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2004-10-25 11:00am

Techno: Pointing out to TGBO that its gibberish wont really help, he will immidietly insist that we dont have a counter argument and gladly accept the fantasized concession he thinks we just made.

Oh well, what more you can expect from a fucking moron who thinks that he can do whatever Lucas can do when it comes to Star Wars (that his basis for throwing out most of SW continuity anyway)

Wayne, this guy is like a damn clone of Dipshit, you cant shut him up no matter what.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-10-25 03:51pm

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:Wayne, this guy is like a damn clone of Dipshit, you cant shut him up no matter what.

Then ignore him completely, and point him to Mike's smackdown of Dipshit.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-25 04:21pm

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:Techno: Pointing out to TGBO that its gibberish wont really help, he will immidietly insist that we dont have a counter argument and gladly accept the fantasized concession he thinks we just made.

Oh well, what more you can expect from a fucking moron who thinks that he can do whatever Lucas can do when it comes to Star Wars (that his basis for throwing out most of SW continuity anyway)

Wayne, this guy is like a damn clone of Dipshit, you cant shut him up no matter what.

Agreed, which is why I posted a new reply which backs up the point you made.

Lord Poe wrote:Then ignore him completely, and point him to Mike's smackdown of Dipshit.

Then he will come back and say shit about Wong, and then point us to Darkstar's verision of the debate. I honestly don't think he is capable of thinking for himself. A few days ago I asked him to prove the ICS aren't canon without Darkstar's site, he would evade the question and act stupid by saying it was a "double-standard" that I used examples from Wong's site... even though those examples had nothing to do with the ICS or that portion of the debate.

But, I am happy to say that there are some intelligent Trekkies on that board, or at least that portion of it.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2004-10-25 04:50pm

In that case, just ignore him. If he's that much of a dick, who cares what he thinks?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-25 05:06pm

It's still going on with you guys and the Trekkies?

*Arms up and goes back into the breach.*

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-25 05:39pm

Rogue 9 wrote:It's still going on with you guys and the Trekkies? *Arms up and goes back into the breach.*

This is a whole new series of debates with one new, but still ignorant, Trekkie.