Data's durability

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-09-25 01:08am

In the Star Trek film First Contact Data was able to withstand bullets fired from an automatic weapon without any apparent damage. But in the TNG episode Thine Own Self a human looking alien was able to drive a spear through Data and disable him.

This may seem contradictory as Data withstood bullets but could not surive a mere spear. But there might be an explanation. I heard kevlar vests that stops bullets well are not very good against sharp weapons like knives. Maybe Data's skin is like kevlar. It stops bullets but not sharp objects.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-09-25 01:09am

Data also jumped down 20-30 feet without trouble.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-09-25 01:48am

IIRC Data also jumped down about ten meters in "Arsenal of Freedom" without any trouble and was pierced by an arrow in that Robin Hood episode ("Qpid" or whatever it was called).

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-25 02:04am

Arsenal of Freedom – Data drops down into a hole, over ten meters down, to join Picard and Crusher.

Ensigns of Command – Data is disabled with an electric prod.

The Most Toys – Data is disabled by the shock from a specially rigged padd.

Qpid – Data gets shot with an arrow, but no serious repercussions

Thine Own Self – Data is impaled with a spear, sparks a few times, then shuts down.

First Contact – Another long drop with no problems

First Contact – Data is riddled with bullets, with no serious repercussions

So he's done the long drop thing twice with no problems, that's more than a human could do at least.

He's been attacked with electrical shocks twice and been disabled twice, so he's vulnerable to electrical attacks/power surges

Three times he's been attacked with piercing weapons (spear/arrow/bullets), with no evidence of any armor resistance. One of those times he sparked then shut down. The other two times there was insignificant internal damage.

Sounds like he's sturdy enough, just don't shock him or damage his electrical systems.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-09-25 04:00am

The prod caused thick visible arcing that moved very slowly. Even if it were a weapon like a taser it wouldn't look like that. So I'm thinking it wasn't mere electricity.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-25 04:46am

Metrion Cascade wrote:The prod caused thick visible arcing that moved very slowly. Even if it were a weapon like a taser it wouldn't look like that. So I'm thinking it wasn't mere electricity.

So assuming it's a new type of mystery energy is simpler than blaming the inconsistencies on the odd radiation that was a major plot point of the episode? Meh, i'm sticking with my electricity theory.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-09-25 08:15am

Also in Nemesis he was able to expose himself to cold hard space with no ill effects.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-09-25 09:45am

Asdeed wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:The prod caused thick visible arcing that moved very slowly. Even if it were a weapon like a taser it wouldn't look like that. So I'm thinking it wasn't mere electricity.
So assuming it's a new type of mystery energy is simpler than blaming the inconsistencies on the odd radiation that was a major plot point of the episode? Meh, i'm sticking with my electricity theory.

Your odd radiation is also mystery energy, and how it would make electricity work differently is also a mystery. It also bears mentioning that Trek plasma systems cause similar arcing and plasma is widely used in Trek. While it is a mystery how plasma can arc, it's a mystery that is consistent with other Trek phenomena. Just as forcefields are impossible but well established in Trek. If we see something that can be explained either by a forcefield or by some new tech that only exists as speculation, has never been seen before, and raises new questions, we default to the forcefield explanation. Plasma arcing has happened elsewhere in Trek. Mystery radiation making elecricity move differently than normal has not.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-25 11:52am

Metrion Cascade wrote:Your odd radiation is also mystery energy, and how it would make electricity work differently is also a mystery. It also bears mentioning that Trek plasma systems cause similar arcing and plasma is widely used in Trek. While it is a mystery how plasma can arc, it's a mystery that is consistent with other Trek phenomena. Just as forcefields are impossible but well established in Trek. If we see something that can be explained either by a forcefield or by some new tech that only exists as speculation, has never been seen before, and raises new questions, we default to the forcefield explanation. Plasma arcing has happened elsewhere in Trek. Mystery radiation making elecricity move differently than normal has not.

I can live with it having been a plasma arc, it still brings Data down via overload. Unless of course you want to give Data an additional vulnerability?

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-09-26 05:46am

Asdeed wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Your odd radiation is also mystery energy, and how it would make electricity work differently is also a mystery. It also bears mentioning that Trek plasma systems cause similar arcing and plasma is widely used in Trek. While it is a mystery how plasma can arc, it's a mystery that is consistent with other Trek phenomena. Just as forcefields are impossible but well established in Trek. If we see something that can be explained either by a forcefield or by some new tech that only exists as speculation, has never been seen before, and raises new questions, we default to the forcefield explanation. Plasma arcing has happened elsewhere in Trek. Mystery radiation making elecricity move differently than normal has not.

I can live with it having been a plasma arc, it still brings Data down via overload. Unless of course you want to give Data an additional vulnerability?

Well, it shows some vulnerability one way or the other.

EDIT - It also bears mentioning that while the prod knocked Data out, it did no apparent physical damage. Apparently he has some resistance to plasma actually burning him.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-26 07:14am

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Asdeed wrote:I can live with it having been a plasma arc, it still brings Data down via overload. Unless of course you want to give Data an additional vulnerability?
Well, it shows some vulnerability one way or the other.

EDIT - It also bears mentioning that while the prod knocked Data out, it did no apparent physical damage. Apparently he has some resistance to plasma actually burning him.

Considering in 'The Most Toys' Data had a similiar reaction to a power surge, why assume he had some other vulnerability that was exploited in this case? If you have an alternative theory, i'd be glad to hear it.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-09-26 07:49am

Asdeed wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:
Asdeed wrote:I can live with it having been a plasma arc, it still brings Data down via overload. Unless of course you want to give Data an additional vulnerability?
Well, it shows some vulnerability one way or the other.

EDIT - It also bears mentioning that while the prod knocked Data out, it did no apparent physical damage. Apparently he has some resistance to plasma actually burning him.
Considering in 'The Most Toys' Data had a similiar reaction to a power surge, why assume he had some other vulnerability that was exploited in this case? If you have an alternative theory, i'd be glad to hear it.

Nope.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-09-26 08:04am

Lord Pounder wrote:Also in Nemesis he was able to expose himself to cold hard space with no ill effects.

Lore survived some time in space after the too after the events in "Datalore" too IIRC.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-26 12:29pm

IUnknown wrote:In the Star Trek film First Contact Data was able to withstand bullets fired from an automatic weapon without any apparent damage. But in the TNG episode Thine Own Self a human looking alien was able to drive a spear through Data and disable him.

This may seem contradictory as Data withstood bullets but could not surive a mere spear. But there might be an explanation. I heard kevlar vests that stops bullets well are not very good against sharp weapons like knives. Maybe Data's skin is like kevlar. It stops bullets but not sharp objects.

A bulletproof vest will stop a bullet but will fail to stop a knife. There's a Darwin award about a russian security guard who bet money that since his vest would stop a knife just like it stops a bullet, and told the other guard to stab him with the knife. He lost

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-09-26 12:35pm

Praxis wrote:A bulletproof vest will stop a bullet but will fail to stop a knife. There's a Darwin award about a russian security guard who bet money that since his vest would stop a knife just like it stops a bullet, and told the other guard to stab him with the knife. He lost

Well...I guess they cut right through that bullshit.

Or, I should say, I guess he got the point.

Or would that be, any way you slice it...?

Ok, I'm just being stupid. But it's so easy!

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-26 01:00pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Praxis wrote:A bulletproof vest will stop a bullet but will fail to stop a knife. There's a Darwin award about a russian security guard who bet money that since his vest would stop a knife just like it stops a bullet, and told the other guard to stab him with the knife. He lost
Well...I guess they cut right through that bullshit.

Or, I should say, I guess he got the point.

Or would that be, any way you slice it...?

Ok, I'm just being stupid. But it's so easy!

ROFL!

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-26 07:15pm

Asdeed wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:
Asdeed wrote:I can live with it having been a plasma arc, it still brings Data down via overload. Unless of course you want to give Data an additional vulnerability?
Well, it shows some vulnerability one way or the other.

EDIT - It also bears mentioning that while the prod knocked Data out, it did no apparent physical damage. Apparently he has some resistance to plasma actually burning him.
Considering in 'The Most Toys' Data had a similiar reaction to a power surge, why assume he had some other vulnerability that was exploited in this case? If you have an alternative theory, i'd be glad to hear it.

The only such incident I recall from "The Most Toys" involved a proximity field specifically designed to impede positron flow--in other words, a device designed solely to disable Data. Are you refering to some other scene I don't recall?

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-26 10:22pm

The Silence and I wrote:The only such incident I recall from "The Most Toys" involved a proximity field specifically designed to impede positron flow--in other words, a device designed solely to disable Data. Are you refering to some other scene I don't recall?

Yeah, i'm referring to the scene at beginning of the episode in the cargo bay. Varria hands Data the final manifest padd to get his confirmation, when he touches it blue sparks shoot out and down he goes.

The effect was nothing like the field Fajo later used to keep Data pacified.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-26 10:29pm

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up, I do not recall that moment; although I remember the circumstances.

Edit:
As mentioned Data has fallen 10 meters in Arsenal of Freedom. Assuming Earth standard gravity he should have been moving at nearly 14 m/s. He weighs ~90 kilos IIRC. His legs are 87.2 cm long (Insurrection) so we can derive a minimum force his legs can absorb. To decelerate from 14 m/s to 0 in .872 m requires an average acceleration of 112.4 m/s^2 (2ax=v^2). F=ma, so average force=10114 N.
The first stage of the landing may involve a greater acceleration than the ending stage and this may not represent the maximum distance Data can jump. Considering his lifting ability, I suspect this is not his limit (e.g. in Insurrection he readily lifts a rock that could easiy mass 1000+ kg, and then walks off screen with it).

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-27 07:30am

Soungs good to me

All in all, he sounds pretty damned durable to me!

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-27 05:39pm

True that!
Data is best understood IMO as a super durable/strong person. He has a skeleton made of materials unbelievably strong, but he can be pierced by sharp objects if they do not strike his skeleton. He is not made for combat, after all, he does not have armor plating, built in weapons, sensor suits, etc. He is capable of a great many things including combat, just like Soong intended; but by necessity he cannot excell at all of them.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-09-27 11:42pm

Could it be possible that Data has extra armor on the front of his body but the rear is less so. When Data gets hit by the bullets or arrow they are both to the front of his chest. When Data was impaled it was to through his backside if I recall correctly. One problem with my theory is that I would half expect the frontal plate to prevent Data from being completely impaled as he was in the episode.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-28 12:47am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Could it be possible that Data has extra armor on the front of his body but the rear is less so. When Data gets hit by the bullets or arrow they are both to the front of his chest. When Data was impaled it was to through his backside if I recall correctly. One problem with my theory is that I would half expect the frontal plate to prevent Data from being completely impaled as he was in the episode.

I thought Lily shot him in the back. Then he turned around?

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-28 01:13am

Correct. Lily shot him repeatedly in the back before he turned around. Then she shot him repeatedly in the front. I like to think of this as an upgrade, whereby he has implemented additional protection--partly supported by his ever changing access ports--but any and all dialog statels flatly that Data has never changed physically.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2004-09-28 07:13am

Yeah, there's never been mention of any kind of armor for Data, but plenty of examples of him having redundant systems. How many times has he mentioned his secondary or tertiary processors?

Best I can figure he's only got a few truly vital parts that could take him down with one hit. So Lilly just didn't hit any.

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Data's durability

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