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Lore

Posted: 2004-08-31 04:36pm
by Mark S
So what was the final fate of Lore? Was he totally destroyed the last time the Enterprise got a hold of him or did they just dismantle him again?

Posted: 2004-08-31 04:37pm
by Stravo
Wasn't Lore deactivated for good by Data in Descent?

Posted: 2004-08-31 04:40pm
by Bob the Gunslinger
Yeah. "For good." Meaning "Until the writers think of something to do with him again." They did it all offscreen and left it up to the viewer how dismantled he was, so he might as well pop on back together any minute now.

Posted: 2004-08-31 09:36pm
by Stofsk
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:Yeah. "For good." Meaning "Until the writers think of something to do with him again." They did it all offscreen and left it up to the viewer how dismantled he was, so he might as well pop on back together any minute now.
While we don't see Data rip out Lore's limbs etc we do see him turn Lore off for good, kind of like Bowman turning off HAL in 2001.

Posted: 2004-08-31 10:01pm
by JME2
It's likey that, like the Moriarty hologram, Lore is in storage at Starfleet HQ or that the Daystorm Ins. was studying him.

Posted: 2004-08-31 10:22pm
by Gandalf
Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was being kept for spare parts. Or being examined at the Daystrom Institute.

Posted: 2004-08-31 10:39pm
by JME2
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.

Posted: 2004-08-31 10:45pm
by Gandalf
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.
They removed the emotion chip?

Posted: 2004-08-31 10:52pm
by JME2
Gandalf wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.
They removed the emotion chip?
Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.

Posted: 2004-09-01 07:18am
by Crazedwraith
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.
Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...

Posted: 2004-09-01 07:35am
by Gandalf
Crazedwraith wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.
Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...
I think it was removed in Descent pt2, when they disassembled him.

Posted: 2004-09-01 11:55am
by JME2
Crazedwraith wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.
Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...
Lore stole the chip and kept it until "Descent" when Data took him off-line for good. While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")

Posted: 2004-09-01 12:29pm
by Elheru Aran
I wonder if there've been any fanfics that deal with this whole Lore thing? Considering that Lore was identical to Data and Dr. Soong, it might make for a few interesting stories... especially in a post-Nemesis timeline... I'd certainly want to read anything like that, just to see how it'd be treated.

Posted: 2004-09-01 02:08pm
by Mark S
I'm surprised they haven't made a Khan rip off movie about Lore's return.

Posted: 2004-09-01 03:39pm
by Ghost Rider
Mark S wrote:I'm surprised they haven't made a Khan rip off movie about Lore's return.
Let's not give them ideas.

Besides wasn't that the point of Nemesis...creating a Khan like villain(just barring the intelligence and background of Khan)?

Posted: 2004-09-01 04:46pm
by Kuja
Ghost Rider wrote:Besides wasn't that the point of Nemesis...creating a Khan like villain
If you mean by creating a villain who followed the good guys into a nebula with funky intereference powers...then yes.

Posted: 2004-09-01 08:35pm
by Gandalf
JME2 wrote:While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")
Nitpick: It was 2 years.

Posted: 2004-09-01 11:11pm
by JME2
Gandalf wrote:
JME2 wrote:While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")
Nitpick: It was 2 years.

Posted: 2004-09-02 12:46am
by Steve
Well, more like one and a half. Descent was the cliffhanger for Season 6 into Season 7 (Stardate 46XXX to 47XXX).

Generations had a Stardate 48XXX.

Posted: 2004-09-02 12:54am
by Gandalf
The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.

Posted: 2004-09-02 01:01am
by JME2
Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.
Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.

Posted: 2004-09-02 04:51pm
by Bob the Gunslinger
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.
Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.
Refit? You mean the more detailed model?

Posted: 2004-09-02 05:16pm
by JME2
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.
Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.
Refit? You mean the more detailed model?
I meant the upgraded bridge module.

Posted: 2004-09-05 01:25am
by Death from the Sea
JME2 wrote:Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.
Aside from Trek books not being true canon material, the idea is BS because in the TNG episode 'Measure of a Man' Data is deemed to not be property of Starfleet and able to choose his own destiny, etc...
Starfleet telling Data he can't have his emotion chip would be like Starfleet telling Geordie he has to remove his ocular implants and put the visor back on.

Posted: 2004-09-05 03:13am
by JME2
Death from the Sea wrote:
JME2 wrote:Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.
Aside from Trek books not being true canon material, the idea is BS because in the TNG episode 'Measure of a Man' Data is deemed to not be property of Starfleet and able to choose his own destiny, etc...
Starfleet telling Data he can't have his emotion chip would be like Starfleet telling Geordie he has to remove his ocular implants and put the visor back on.
Remember this is a Starfleet that's been changed by the Dominion War; the only good thing about the VGR relaunch novels is that no one really cares that they've returned. Also, as I said, I've only been partially followign the A Time to... series; they're rather dull and un-interesting and I personally prefer the Lost Era series