Lore

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-08-31 04:36pm

So what was the final fate of Lore? Was he totally destroyed the last time the Enterprise got a hold of him or did they just dismantle him again?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-08-31 04:37pm

Wasn't Lore deactivated for good by Data in Descent?

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-08-31 04:40pm

Yeah. "For good." Meaning "Until the writers think of something to do with him again." They did it all offscreen and left it up to the viewer how dismantled he was, so he might as well pop on back together any minute now.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-31 09:36pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:Yeah. "For good." Meaning "Until the writers think of something to do with him again." They did it all offscreen and left it up to the viewer how dismantled he was, so he might as well pop on back together any minute now.

While we don't see Data rip out Lore's limbs etc we do see him turn Lore off for good, kind of like Bowman turning off HAL in 2001.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-08-31 10:01pm

It's likey that, like the Moriarty hologram, Lore is in storage at Starfleet HQ or that the Daystorm Ins. was studying him.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-08-31 10:22pm

Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was being kept for spare parts. Or being examined at the Daystrom Institute.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-08-31 10:39pm

Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.

And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-08-31 10:45pm

JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.

They removed the emotion chip?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-08-31 10:52pm

Gandalf wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
And had also vanished by the time of Nemesis, an theory that was verified by the A Time to... book-series.
They removed the emotion chip?

Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-09-01 07:18am

Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.

Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-01 07:35am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.
Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...

I think it was removed in Descent pt2, when they disassembled him.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-01 11:55am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Also, Lore's emotion chip was taken and later put into Data.
.
Uuumm...no. Data's emotion chip was made for Data escpecially by Soong. He did implant it in Lore by accident in one episode but I thought it was removed before the end of that episode. Maybe not its been ages since i saw it after all...

Lore stole the chip and kept it until "Descent" when Data took him off-line for good. While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-09-01 12:29pm

I wonder if there've been any fanfics that deal with this whole Lore thing? Considering that Lore was identical to Data and Dr. Soong, it might make for a few interesting stories... especially in a post-Nemesis timeline... I'd certainly want to read anything like that, just to see how it'd be treated.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-09-01 02:08pm

I'm surprised they haven't made a Khan rip off movie about Lore's return.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-01 03:39pm

Mark S wrote:I'm surprised they haven't made a Khan rip off movie about Lore's return.

Let's not give them ideas.

Besides wasn't that the point of Nemesis...creating a Khan like villain(just barring the intelligence and background of Khan)?

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-09-01 04:46pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Besides wasn't that the point of Nemesis...creating a Khan like villain

If you mean by creating a villain who followed the good guys into a nebula with funky intereference powers...then yes.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-01 08:35pm

JME2 wrote:While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")

Nitpick: It was 2 years.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-01 11:11pm

Gandalf wrote:
JME2 wrote:While Data was tempted to experiment with the chip at that point, it wouldn't be for another year that he actually used it ("Generations")
Nitpick: It was 2 years.

Post by **Steve** » 2004-09-02 12:46am

Well, more like one and a half. Descent was the cliffhanger for Season 6 into Season 7 (Stardate 46XXX to 47XXX).

Generations had a Stardate 48XXX.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-02 12:54am

The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-02 01:01am

Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.

Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-02 04:51pm

JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.
Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.

Refit? You mean the more detailed model?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-02 05:16pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Gandalf wrote:The TNG Companion says that the writer wrote Generations to be about a year after AGT.
Obviosuly enough time for the Ent-D to get the short-lived refit.
Refit? You mean the more detailed model?

I meant the upgraded bridge module.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2004-09-05 01:25am

JME2 wrote:Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.

Aside from Trek books not being true canon material, the idea is BS because in the TNG episode 'Measure of a Man' Data is deemed to not be property of Starfleet and able to choose his own destiny, etc...
Starfleet telling Data he can't have his emotion chip would be like Starfleet telling Geordie he has to remove his ocular implants and put the visor back on.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-05 03:13am

Death from the Sea wrote:
JME2 wrote:Fans speculated on its apparent MIA in Nemesis and A Time to Be Born revealed what happened to it. Essentially, in the aftermath of a mission gone wrong, Starfleet chose to sacrifice Picard's career in an attempt to keep face with the planet where the incident had occured, a post-Dominion War member and the possible chain-reaction in Federation secesion if not pacified.

During Picard's trial, Data's emotion chip was found by the prosecution to be an un-necessary upgrade and, since it had not come with Data when he had entered Starfleet, property of Starfleet. Rather than fight it, Data willingly allowed it be removed, though Geordi was so furious that he seriously contemplated resigning from Starfleet in protest.
Aside from Trek books not being true canon material, the idea is BS because in the TNG episode 'Measure of a Man' Data is deemed to not be property of Starfleet and able to choose his own destiny, etc...
Starfleet telling Data he can't have his emotion chip would be like Starfleet telling Geordie he has to remove his ocular implants and put the visor back on.

Remember this is a Starfleet that's been changed by the Dominion War; the only good thing about the VGR relaunch novels is that no one really cares that they've returned. Also, as I said, I've only been partially followign the A Time to... series; they're rather dull and un-interesting and I personally prefer the Lost Era series