Behr Offered Berman And Braga Advice

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-07-15 09:43am

From Trektoday:

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine producer and writer Ira Steven Behr revealed that he spoke "bluntly" when Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, the executive producers of Star Trek: Enterprise called him in before the third season to ask his opinion on the direction of the show.

"They sent me the three [episodes of Enterprise], I went in, had a two hour meeting with Rick and Brannon," Behr told TrekWeb. "It was a very cordial meeting, but everything I said I am sure they did not like hearing. I would not liked to have heard it if someone came into my office and talked as bluntly as I was talking to them. Though again, it was done all cordially. After it was over I am sure they were uncomfortable, I was very uncomfortable, we shook hands, Rick said, 'well, all interesting stuff, we’ll think it over,' and I never heard from him again."

Ultimately, Behr does not regard the meeting as one of any real importance. "That's the whole story and it's barely a blip in anyone's lives, it has no impact whatsoever on the franchise. It's just something that happened."

What Behr does hold in high regard is his work as a writer and executive producer on Deep Space Nine. He believes that Deep Space Nine did a superior job of developing its many characters, and also presented a universe that was much more realistic than the utopias of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation. "I think the series as a whole was [DS9's] greatest contribution [to the Star Trek universe]," he said. "Getting back to telling character-oriented stories, getting back to having conflict between human beings; plot at the service of character....I think we created a much more complete universe in which you can have all these characters with all these backstories, all these races, all these supporting characters. You knew more about 'Garak' or 'Gul Dukat', ultimately, than you knew about 'Riker'. So that to me is the contribution."

When asked about how Deep Space Nine would be received by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, Behr points out that there's no way to determine that. "Everyone speaks for Gene Roddenberry, who’s gone, and I would not speak for Gene Roddenberry or be so quick to speak about what Gene would want or not want," Behr said. "The Gene Roddenberry of 1966 was a hell of a lot different than the Gene Roddenberry of 1989 and I'm sure had he been around in 1997 he would’ve been different from the Gene Roddenberry of 1989."

Behr doesn't predict a break in Trek so long as there's money to be made, but he is aware of how Deep Space Nine's reputation hinges upon that of the franchise as a whole. "[The franchise is] a cash cow, so look here’s the bottom line from my tiny little view: whatever is good for the franchise is good for Deep Space Nine," he noted. "If the franchise is considered a joke and loses touch with the genre fans and the creative zeitgeist, it’s bad for Deep Space because it’s just another lumpy Star Trek series. If the franchise is considered viable and entertaining and interesting and a flagship in pop culture, people will be drawn to check it out and they'll look at Deep Space Nine and I think they'll be intrigued. I want the franchise to do well, that’s beyond any personal feelings about anything else."

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-07-15 10:17am

holy shit! and the Emperors B&B still don't realize that they have no clothes.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-07-15 10:32am

Would've preferred to know what exactly he had told them.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-07-15 10:34am

I get a pretty good idea

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-15 10:39am

Considering the FAR superior storytelling of DS9, (aside from TOS I consider it the best Trek series) B&B probably didn't undertsand anything that Behr was telling them. Things like "No reset buttons." "Character development" "Continuity" roll off their brains like water off a duck's back.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-07-15 11:48am

I liked DS9 up until the point it became a poor facsimilie of B5 and the whole prophets vs park wraiths (like I care if I spelt that right) bullshit stunk it up to high heaven.

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2004-07-15 12:26pm

Crown wrote:I liked DS9 up until the point it became a poor facsimilie of B5 and the whole prophets vs park wraiths (like I care if I spelt that right) bullshit stunk it up to high heaven.

The first parts were very solid (I liked political themes to begin with) - the more the "prophets" came into it in a big way, the harder it became to swallow.

Relatively, it was a very solid show for Star Trek - superior to TNG, and compared to Voyager and ENT - like Mount Everest vs the deepest ocean trench.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-15 04:32pm

Behr is right. TNG didn't have much in the way of character development. Data got the lions share of it, along with Wesley, and Picard and Crusher got some occasionally, but really, they didn't explore the characters too much. You really did get to know who Garak was than Riker.

For example, compare Spock's "death" in "Wrath of Khan" to Data's superman jump in "Nemesis", both are saying goodbye to their close friends but who did you feel there was the big connection? Due to Nemesis' shitty writing and TNGs lackluster interpersonal writing, the Geordi/Data goodbye fell flat and almost unemotional. Can you say the same when Spock says with his "dying" breath "You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always will be yours" as the crew helplessly watches Spock "die"? Even though Spock managed to do some psychic trickshooting to survive the incident, you really cared about Kirk and Spocks relationship. TNG just didn't have that.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-07-15 04:38pm

Crown wrote:I liked DS9 up until the point it became a poor facsimilie of B5 and the whole prophets vs park wraiths (like I care if I spelt that right) bullshit stunk it up to high heaven.

Chaos vs. Order is often used in SF. B5 was not very inventive.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2004-07-15 04:50pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Behr is right. TNG didn't have much in the way of character development. Data got the lions share of it, along with Wesley, and Picard and Crusher got some occasionally, but really, they didn't explore the characters too much. You really did get to know who Garak was than Riker.

For example, compare Spock's "death" in "Wrath of Khan" to Data's superman jump in "Nemesis", both are saying goodbye to their close friends but who did you feel there was the big connection? Due to Nemesis' shitty writing and TNGs lackluster interpersonal writing, the Geordi/Data goodbye fell flat and almost unemotional. Can you say the same when Spock says with his "dying" breath "You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always will be yours" as the crew helplessly watches Spock "die"? Even though Spock managed to do some psychic trickshooting to survive the incident, you really cared about Kirk and Spocks relationship. TNG just didn't have that.

Amen. Christ, all Geordie did was nod over to Data before he jumped. I mean, granted, he probably didn't know that Data might not be coming back, but no "Be careful" or "watch yourself over there", and they're supposed to be good friends. That really irritated me. Watching Spock pass on in ST II was full of emotion, which didn't feel anything like Nemesis.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-07-15 08:24pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Behr is right. TNG didn't have much in the way of character development. Data got the lions share of it, along with Wesley, and Picard and Crusher got some occasionally, but really, they didn't explore the characters too much. You really did get to know who Garak was than Riker.

Ironic, given the "character development" episodes they sprinkled through TNG like "The Icarus Factor" and "The Pegasus" (as two examples of Riker-angst episodes).

But then, are the Trek writers (besides B&B) even science fiction writers any more, or are they just the standard assortment of Hollywood hacks?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-15 08:54pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:For example, compare Spock's "death" in "Wrath of Khan" to Data's superman jump in "Nemesis", both are saying goodbye to their close friends but who did you feel there was the big connection? Due to Nemesis' shitty writing and TNGs lackluster interpersonal writing, the Geordi/Data goodbye fell flat and almost unemotional. Can you say the same when Spock says with his "dying" breath "You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always will be yours" as the crew helplessly watches Spock "die"? Even though Spock managed to do some psychic trickshooting to survive the incident, you really cared about Kirk and Spocks relationship. TNG just didn't have that.

Damn right. And Spock's funeral ceremony? One of Shatner's best performances. "Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most ... human."

Crown wrote:I liked DS9 up until the point it became a poor facsimilie of B5 and the whole prophets vs park wraiths (like I care if I spelt that right) bullshit stunk it up to high heaven.

Yeah, god damn Park Wraiths. Always running around parks, mucking things up, stepping on the flowers, smoking weed at 2 in the morning. No good assholes.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-15 09:00pm

apocolypse wrote:Amen. Christ, all Geordie did was nod over to Data before he jumped. I mean, granted, he probably didn't know that Data might not be coming back, but no "Be careful" or "watch yourself over there", and they're supposed to be good friends. That really irritated me. Watching Spock pass on in ST II was full of emotion, which didn't feel anything like Nemesis.

Geordi didn't do shit at Data's memorial service, either. Those two are supposed to be best friends.

And, as a matter of fact, Data's character development moved RADICALLY backwards in "Nemesis," since he not only didn't have emotions, but didn't even REMEMBER having emotions.

I would have to say that DS9, on the whole, was a much better program than TNG. I thought that the best TNG episodes were better than the best of DS9 (ie. Yesterday's Enterprise, BoBW, etc. vs. Sacrifice of Angels, etc.), but it did do much more with its characters, plot, and scripting. If ENT was halfway like DS9, I'd still be watching Trek today.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-07-15 09:02pm

Durandal wrote:
Crown wrote:I liked DS9 up until the point it became a poor facsimilie of B5 and the whole prophets vs park wraiths (like I care if I spelt that right) bullshit stunk it up to high heaven.
Yeah, god damn Park Wraiths. Always running around parks, mucking things up, stepping on the flowers, smoking weed at 2 in the morning. No good assholes.

FUQ!