Why doesn't paramount seem to get it..

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-06-27 09:09pm

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=114694

an 11th film by Berman?? Paramount must be smokin crack...

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-27 09:55pm

Well Nemesis went outside the franchise regulars (director/writer wise as I suspect Berman was hardly the driving influence of the script) and was hardly stellar (pun possibly intended).

While Paramount should know better the failure of Nemesis has probably helped B&B look like they aren't responsible for the decline of Trek.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-06-27 10:11pm

*sigh*

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-06-28 12:22am

They might be doing a TRILOGY? WTF?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-28 08:33am

What is Paramount thinking ? This are the guys who ruined Star Trek. They dont deserve another chance to hurt the franchise by making yet another medicore film.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 2004-06-28 08:49am

Let them do it, I hardly think they can ruin this franchise any further.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-06-28 12:31pm

I'm not so sure about that. If they do a movie on say, the Romulan War or something else the fans really want to see, and royally fuck it up, I think it could drive the franchise a little deeper into the ground.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-06-28 12:46pm

TheDarkling wrote:Well Nemesis went outside the franchise regulars (director/writer wise as I suspect Berman was hardly the driving influence of the script) and was hardly stellar (pun possibly intended).

While Paramount should know better the failure of Nemesis has probably helped B&B look like they aren't responsible for the decline of Trek.

Insurrection was done by Berman's usual cronies, and in addition to performing mediocre at the box office went over budget!

And you do realise that we're talking about a studio that sacked Harve Bennett because TFF didn't outgross TVH (which they expected from day one of the production, even though they doomed it to failure early on by refusing to hire Nicholas Meyer to do the screenplay, instead hiring a sitcom writer), but kept Berman when INS barely made back its advertising and budget costs, and when NEM was second only to Pluto Nash (the worst box-office performer ever) in terms of loss that year!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-28 02:40pm

DaveJB wrote: Insurrection was done by Berman's usual cronies, and in addition to performing mediocre at the box office went over budget!

And still preformed better than Nemesis, showing that reducing the B&B involvement didn't help the film but actually caused it to do worse (from the suits perspective at least).

kept Berman when INS barely made back its advertising and budget costs, and when NEM was second only to Pluto Nash (the worst box-office performer ever) in terms of loss that year!

It is quite obvious they have come to expect less from trek over time, B&B are simply selling it as a general down turn of interest in Sci-FI/Trek not a specific indictment of their abilities and Nemesis has only served to strengthen that position.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-28 02:47pm

They should hire Tom Clancy to write a movie for the Cold War in Space. Or maybe they should read Bobby Kennedy's recount of the Cuban Missile Crisis and call up the people who made 13 Days. I would like to see that, a Romulan Photorp Crisis type thing.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-28 05:08pm

TheDarkling wrote:It is quite obvious they have come to expect less from trek over time, B&B are simply selling it as a general down turn of interest in Sci-FI/Trek not a specific indictment of their abilities and Nemesis has only served to strengthen that position.

When the failure of a Trek film in which Berman was both a co-writer and producer is perceived to "strengthen" his position, something is severely wrong.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-06-28 05:27pm

It appears the disease that causes Dorkster's stupidity is indeed contagious...

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-28 06:04pm

Darth Wong wrote: When the failure of a Trek film in which Berman was both a co-writer and producer is perceived to "strengthen" his position, something is severely wrong.

He and his other associates were less involved in Nemesis that they were in Insurrection and even further back First Contact.
Berman from my understanding was very much junior to Logan on Nemesis and Nemesis bombed, Insurrection where he was senior did better and First Contact even had Braga along and did better still.

Now of course this wasn't down to them being onboard but Piller and Co who can actually write a story, however from eth Suits perspective reducing Bermans control hasn't given instant dividends.

I'm not saying I agree with that stance but from an idiots point of view (which experience has taught me most Execs in the entertainment industry are) they reduced Berman’s control and brought it an accomplished writer (at least in some peoples opinion) to write the story and screenplay (and a non-franchise director to direct) and it was a disaster, the conclusion drawn will be that people from outside the franchise cannot deliver what the fans want.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-06-28 06:14pm

What's all this "Berman was junior to Logan in Nemesis" all about, anyway?

Point of fact: according to IMDB, Logan and Berman shared 'story by' credits even though Logan wrote the screenplay. Incidentally, Berman maintained 'Producer' credits, while Logan was nowhere to be seen for that title. How the hell can a Producer of a movie be second to the movie's Screenwriter? And given they shared writing credits - no matter how partially - how can it be said Berman didn't have an undue influence over Logan? He shares writing credits and was the producer, making him more than partially responsible for what's on screen.

We can blame Logan for crappy dialogue and plot developments; but why does the buck stop with him?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-28 06:37pm

kojikun wrote:They should hire Tom Clancy to write a movie for the Cold War in Space. Or maybe they should read Bobby Kennedy's recount of the Cuban Missile Crisis and call up the people who made 13 Days. I would like to see that, a Romulan Photorp Crisis type thing.

Heh. That would be interesting - too bad that they're [B/B] too proud to ask 'em for help...

Darth Wong wrote:When the failure of a Trek film in which Berman was both a co-writer and producer is perceived to "strengthen" his position, something is severely wrong.

Something's been wrong with the whole franchise since DS9 ended. They need to get people like Bher, Wolf, and Moore back into the franchise; they at least know what they're doing.

Behr and Wolf would be in hands down if Paramount wanted to do a DS9 film. Moore might take some time; he and Berman parted over bad terms on VGR, I think during the former's brief 1-year stint on the series.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-28 07:00pm

Stofsk wrote: We can blame Logan for crappy dialogue and plot developments; but why does the buck stop with him?

The buck doesn't stop with him however Logan made it pretty clear that it was the story he wanted to do and he alone wrote the screenplay.

It was Paramount’s attempt to go outside the franchise (both Writer and Director) and it resulted in failure, they will thus revert back to people from inside the franchise.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-06-28 07:09pm

JME2 wrote: Moore might take some time; he and Berman parted over bad terms on VGR, I think during the former's brief 1-year stint on the series.

I think he's more interested into making BSG a better Voyager than Star Trek, now.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-06-28 11:48pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:I think he's more interested into making BSG a better Voyager than Star Trek, now.

That much is certain. There were places where I directly recognized Moore's bitching in that big long interview I posted awhile back, like the "time to start having babies" line.

Besides, Moore has flaws of his own.

Why doesn't Paramount try to get Nick Meyer back for another feature, their best Trek director and writer (as he pretty much wrote the whole 20th century sequence of ST4)?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-18 07:46am

evilcat4000 wrote:What is Paramount thinking ? This are the guys who ruined Star Trek. They dont deserve another chance to hurt the franchise by making yet another medicore film.

Medicore is too kind of a word fir Nemesis and It's ilk... while Gene's widow is out making Roddenbarry's <insert name here> most of which have decent premesis but quickly loose all sense of continuity, and value after a little while, B&B just continue to drive the universe into the grave....

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-07-18 01:01pm

I have slain the zombie thread.