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Suppose Kirk had been given permission to go to the Genesis planet in Star Trek III, and Scotty hadn't sabotaged the Transwarp drive. How would this have changed the future of the Federation? And more importantly, would it have been a good thing? (I'm thinking about a Kirk vs. Borg incident here)

Straha wrote:Suppose Kirk had been given permission to go to the Genesis planet in Star Trek III, and Scotty hadn't sabotaged the Transwarp drive. How would this have changed the future of the Federation? And more importantly, would it have been a good thing? (I'm thinking about a Kirk vs. Borg incident here)

Well since the Feds never got the transwarp project to work, i'd say not much would change.

Well, according to non-canon sources, the sabotage allowed engineers to spot critical failures in the transwarp tech, effectively saving a lot of lifes on the Excelsior ( what, Federation engineering sucks ? news to me ). But that's non-canon.

Crazedwraith wrote:

Straha wrote:Suppose Kirk had been given permission to go to the Genesis planet in Star Trek III, and Scotty hadn't sabotaged the Transwarp drive. How would this have changed the future of the Federation? And more importantly, would it have been a good thing? (I'm thinking about a Kirk vs. Borg incident here)

Well since the Feds never got the transwarp project to work, i'd say not much would change.

I thought they abandoned it after the failure with Excelsior...

Straha wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote:

Straha wrote:Suppose Kirk had been given permission to go to the Genesis planet in Star Trek III, and Scotty hadn't sabotaged the Transwarp drive. How would this have changed the future of the Federation? And more importantly, would it have been a good thing? (I'm thinking about a Kirk vs. Borg incident here)

Well since the Feds never got the transwarp project to work, i'd say not much would change.

I thought they abandoned it after the failure with Excelsior...

And the Excelsior failed becuase they couldn't get the transwarp to work.

Let's just say they took the Excelsior, and the Transwarp drive worked. In this situation, when they got to Genesis, if the Klingons decided to attack the Excelsior (which they probably would, since they decided to attack the E-Nil and didn't realise it was falling apart, even after they blew the control circuits out), they would most likely have been blown away by the Excelsior's firepower, or captured. In that case, Kirk could just pluck Spock, Saavik and David off the planet's surface, flown across to Vulcan and gotten Spock sorted out. Then back to Earth before the bars closed!

However, this situation would actually have doomed the Federation, or at least Earth. Had Kirk, Spock & Co. still been on Earth when The Probe showed up, they'd have been stranded there and unable to slingshot around the sun. Even if they were out flying with the Excelsior, it's hard to imagine them duplicating their San Francisco mission without a cloaking device.

Crazedwraith wrote:

Straha wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote: Well since the Feds never got the transwarp project to work, i'd say not much would change.

I thought they abandoned it after the failure with Excelsior...

And the Excelsior failed becuase they couldn't get the transwarp to work.

And it failed because Scotty stole the Excelsior's spark plugs. Why a starship has spark plugs, I'll never know.

While the Excelsior failed in that particular incident, we can't leap to the conclusion that the transwarp project failed as a result. That particular leap in technology never happened because the big giant heads who were attempting to make transwarp work failed.

In short, they didn't scrap transwarp because Scotty sabotaged the Excelsior, that's a silly assumption.

SCRawl wrote:While the Excelsior failed in that particular incident, we can't leap to the conclusion that the transwarp project failed as a result. That particular leap in technology never happened because the big giant heads who were attempting to make transwarp work failed.

In short, they didn't scrap transwarp because Scotty sabotaged the Excelsior, that's a silly assumption.

Not entirley, Scotty is smart, being an engineer he knows where other engineers look, and don't look/can't see/can't tell the difference (heck for all we know he could have sabotaged a completley different system, but one that would affect the transwarp.) So he sabotages the transwarp drive so that you can't tell whats wrong with it unless you're looking for it, and when the Big Wigs try to figure out what's wrong they can't, so they assume the idea is flawed and scrap it.

Aya wrote:And it failed because Scotty stole the Excelsior's spark plugs. Why a starship has spark plugs, I'll never know.

He stole the control chips! Not the spark plugs! Did they look like spark plugs when he hqanded them to McCoy? Whatever Scotty did he did it so that the chips not being present would not show up unless some opened where they are and looked inside.

They probably gave the TWD system a full diagnostic/eval to find the sabatogue, and found other problems.

Either that, or at the trial, Scotty said 'I removed' the control chips, they put them back in, and Excelsior still stalled.

Isolder74 wrote:

Aya wrote:And it failed because Scotty stole the Excelsior's spark plugs. Why a starship has spark plugs, I'll never know.

He stole the control chips! Not the spark plugs! Did they look like spark plugs when he hqanded them to McCoy? Whatever Scotty did he did it so that the chips not being present would not show up unless some opened where they are and looked inside.

Calm down, I was working from memory. But, you could say that they were the spark plugs, in a way.

Aya wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:

Aya wrote:And it failed because Scotty stole the Excelsior's spark plugs. Why a starship has spark plugs, I'll never know.

He stole the control chips! Not the spark plugs! Did they look like spark plugs when he hqanded them to McCoy? Whatever Scotty did he did it so that the chips not being present would not show up unless some opened where they are and looked inside.

Calm down, I was working from memory. But, you could say that they were the spark plugs, in a way.

Actually its more like swiping an automobile's control computer and replacing it with something that emulates it but does not actually function.

Like B&B's brains?

ZING!

Starfleet knew that Scotty sabotaged the Excelsior. ST4 makes this very clear. So they didn't scrap the Excelsior because of his sabotage.

Isolder74 wrote:

Aya wrote:And it failed because Scotty stole the Excelsior's spark plugs. Why a starship has spark plugs, I'll never know.

He stole the control chips! Not the spark plugs! Did they look like spark plugs when he hqanded them to McCoy? Whatever Scotty did he did it so that the chips not being present would not show up unless some opened where they are and looked inside.

Ans you don't think Scotty told them he stole the spark plugs/control chips. Afterwards? I hardly think Scotty would let the scrap a design that failed because of sabotage and since they still didn't get transwarp drive by Picard's time then they still couldn't get it to work with the spark plugs/control chips.