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I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

they were up, I think it's because the Scimitar was the first starship to have enough power to use both it's weapons and shields

Lord Revan wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

they were up, I think it's because the Scimitar was the first starship to have enough power to use both it's weapons and shields

In other words if Trek has any wanktech the Scimitar is among it. At least in Trek terms.

more or less so.

Wait, you're saying that a bunch of slaves from a mining planet managed to design and build one of the most advanced warships, with one of the best power plants seen in modern ST, faster than Utopia Planetia can build a couple of Galaxy or Soverign class?



How the hell did that happen?

Darksider wrote:Wait, you're saying that a bunch of slaves from a mining planet managed to design and build one of the most advanced warships, with one of the best power plants seen in modern ST, faster than Utopia Planetia can build a couple of Galaxy or Soverign class?



How the hell did that happen?

don't know, but I'm not a ST writer so don't blame me.

Darksider wrote:Wait, you're saying that a bunch of slaves from a mining planet managed to design and build one of the most advanced warships, with one of the best power plants seen in modern ST, faster than Utopia Planetia can build a couple of Galaxy or Soverign class?


How the hell did that happen?

I think the Romulan military funded a project to build it, run by Shinzon.

Metrion Cascade wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

they were up, I think it's because the Scimitar was the first starship to have enough power to use both it's weapons and shields

In other words if Trek has any wanktech the Scimitar is among it. At least in Trek terms.

Yea, it's slotted up there with the rest of the one-shot technology. It'd be really wonderful if the writers could get off this idea that technology is revolutionary instead of evolutionary. Then there'd actually be some interesting and new things in Trek these days.

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

From my understanding, the cloak acted as shields. When he ambushes the Valdore, he specifically ordered the aft quarter cloak to be dropped. Then, the Scimitar starts taking damage, he orders an all stop, the Valdore flys in front of the Scimitar and he blasts it with a point-blank volley.

Matt Huang wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

From my understanding, the cloak acted as shields. When he ambushes the Valdore, he specifically ordered the aft quarter cloak to be dropped. Then, the Scimitar starts taking damage, he orders an all stop, the Valdore flys in front of the Scimitar and he blasts it with a point-blank volley.

those hit were to the shields, while they did take damage.

Lord Revan wrote:

Matt Huang wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:I just realized something very odd about the battle in Nemesis. If the Scimitar had its shields up during the battle, that would make it the first ship I recall seeing that could raise shields while cloaked.

Or maybe its shields were down and its hull is tougher than most ships' shields?

From my understanding, the cloak acted as shields. When he ambushes the Valdore, he specifically ordered the aft quarter cloak to be dropped. Then, the Scimitar starts taking damage, he orders an all stop, the Valdore flys in front of the Scimitar and he blasts it with a point-blank volley.

those hit were to the shields, while they did take damage.

nope. they were taking hull damage. Otherwise, the Valdore must really be overpowered to drop the Scimitar's shields and threaten the ship in a few shots when the E-E's arsenal couldn't do the same.

Matt Huang wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:

Matt Huang wrote: From my understanding, the cloak acted as shields. When he ambushes the Valdore, he specifically ordered the aft quarter cloak to be dropped. Then, the Scimitar starts taking damage, he orders an all stop, the Valdore flys in front of the Scimitar and he blasts it with a point-blank volley.

those hit were to the shields, while they did take damage.

nope. they were taking hull damage. Otherwise, the Valdore must really be overpowered to drop the Scimitar's shields and threaten the ship in a few shots when the E-E's arsenal couldn't do the same.

It's not unheard of for ST ships take hull damage while their shields are up (ST6 for example) and I think VFX showed shields hits.

Lord Revan wrote:

Matt Huang wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: those hit were to the shields, while they did take damage.

nope. they were taking hull damage. Otherwise, the Valdore must really be overpowered to drop the Scimitar's shields and threaten the ship in a few shots when the E-E's arsenal couldn't do the same.

It's not unheard of for ST ships take hull damage while their shields are up (ST6 for example) and I think VFX showed shields hits.

During the pounding the E-E threw out at the Scimitar, the officer didn't mention critical hull damage at all (which they will always make a point of doing for drama). Either way, that would put the Valdore's firepower above that of the Sov.

Matt Huang wrote: During the pounding the E-E threw out at the Scimitar, the officer didn't mention critical hull damage at all (which they will always make a point of doing for drama). Either way, that would put the Valdore's firepower above that of the Sov.

If you mean after Troys little trick, I think they were too busy geting trown around the bridge like ragdolls to say anything.

Another thing is that the Scimitar had a dual shield system. It could have lowered its cloak shield in that section, and raised its primary shield when the Valdore was firing on it.

Metrion Cascade wrote: In other words if Trek has any wanktech the Scimitar is among it. At least in Trek terms.

True, but Trek has had wanktech before. Remember the Defiant?

Don't forget DS9's Escaflowne Fate Alteration Engine ripoff as well.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Don't forget DS9's Escaflowne Fate Alteration Engine ripoff as well.

Was that an Escaflowne rip off? It was so poorly done that I didn't even notice.

I doubt it, but I just like calling it that because IIRC, it seems to annoy some people.

That and Escaflowne accomplished the subject so much better.

Matt Huang wrote: From my understanding, the cloak acted as shields. When he ambushes the Valdore, he specifically ordered the aft quarter cloak to be dropped. Then, the Scimitar starts taking damage, he orders an all stop, the Valdore flys in front of the Scimitar and he blasts it with a point-blank volley.

It's quite a good idea, Matt, but I'm afraid it doesn't follow: when the Scimitar is fully decloaked near the end of the battle, LaForge says her shields are still at 70%.

It's not unheard of for ST ships take hull damage while their shields are up (ST6 for example) and I think VFX showed shields hits.

But weren't TOS shields hull hugging as opposed to projecting out a bubble like in TNG. If they were hull hugging some of the energy from the torpedo hits could have caused damage to hull plates.

or I could just be talking out my arse

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I doubt it, but I just like calling it that because IIRC, it seems to annoy some people.

That and Escaflowne accomplished the subject so much better.

You're talking about 'Rivals', right?

If that's a TNG episode, no, that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm refering to was used by Sisko and the Gang on DS9.

I wouldn't know what the episode title was. All I know is that they had a device that could alter the laws of probability.

They might as well have given Sisko a fucking magic wand, to be honest: it'd be on the same level of believability to me.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:If that's a TNG episode, no, that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm refering to was used by Sisko and the Gang on DS9.

I wouldn't know what the episode title was. All I know is that they had a device that could alter the laws of probability.

They might as well have given Sisko a fucking magic wand, to be honest: it'd be on the same level of believability to me.

That's "Rivals", the DS9 episode where the guy opens a competitor bar to Quarks using the Luck Engine thingy to attract customers.

The Kernel wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:If that's a TNG episode, no, that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm refering to was used by Sisko and the Gang on DS9.

I wouldn't know what the episode title was. All I know is that they had a device that could alter the laws of probability.

They might as well have given Sisko a fucking magic wand, to be honest: it'd be on the same level of believability to me.

That's "Rivals", the DS9 episode where the guy opens a competitor bar to Quarks using the Luck Engine thingy to attract customers.

Wait--are you telling me there's a DS9 episode where a device exists which can alter probability, and by extention the underlying structure of the universe itself, and it's being used to cheat on roulette? Instead of, say, making Dominion battleships spontaneously teleport into stars?