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In the Voyager episode "Dreadnaught" we find out that the Maquie reprogrammed a heavily armed and armored missle that they had captured. My question is- if it was so heavily armed and armored (it had quantum torpedos for gods sake!) why didn't they stip out the detenator and old computer and turn it into a makeshift warship? An even better question is: would it be a good idea to use it as such?

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:In the Voyager episode "Dreadnaught" we find out that the Maquie reprogrammed a heavily armed and armored missle that they had captured. My question is- if it was so heavily armed and armored (it had quantum torpedos for gods sake!) why didn't they stip out the detenator and old computer and turn it into a makeshift warship? An even better question is: would it be a good idea to use it as such?

Even if it made a good warship, the Maquis might not have had the infrastructure to support it.

It could also be the Maquis leadership decided that having a missile that size was worth more than having another warship. I never saw the episode, but from what I gather the thing packed quite a wallop, and could have been devestating if fired at a heavily populated world.

RedImperator wrote:It could also be the Maquis leadership decided that having a missile that size was worth more than having another warship. I never saw the episode, but from what I gather the thing packed quite a wallop, and could have been devestating if fired at a heavily populated world.

It supposedly carried one metric tonne of antimatter, which would imply 2000kg of reactant and 43 gigatons upper limit, depending on efficiency. Quite huge by ST standards.

Darth Wong wrote:

RedImperator wrote:It could also be the Maquis leadership decided that having a missile that size was worth more than having another warship. I never saw the episode, but from what I gather the thing packed quite a wallop, and could have been devestating if fired at a heavily populated world.

It supposedly carried one metric tonne of antimatter, which would imply 2000kg of reactant and 43 gigatons upper limit, depending on efficiency. Quite huge by ST standards.

Stuff like this makes you take a good look back at the debates sometimes and think "WTF was I smoking?" lol Good times...

Darth Wong wrote:

RedImperator wrote:It could also be the Maquis leadership decided that having a missile that size was worth more than having another warship. I never saw the episode, but from what I gather the thing packed quite a wallop, and could have been devestating if fired at a heavily populated world.

It supposedly carried one metric tonne of antimatter, which would imply 2000kg of reactant and 43 gigatons upper limit, depending on efficiency. Quite huge by ST standards.

That qualifies as a wallop. So how the hell did it end up in the Delta Quadrant?

I think it was another Caretaker dealy.

It is worth mentioning that Voyger tried to salvage components from the missile after they captured it. Janeway gave orders to retrofit Voygers torpedo launchers to fire quantum torpedoes captured from the Dreadnaught.

The Dreadnaught episode was terrible. Janeway wanted to sacrifice Voyger to save a nameless unknown species.

RedImperator wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

RedImperator wrote:It could also be the Maquis leadership decided that having a missile that size was worth more than having another warship. I never saw the episode, but from what I gather the thing packed quite a wallop, and could have been devestating if fired at a heavily populated world.

It supposedly carried one metric tonne of antimatter, which would imply 2000kg of reactant and 43 gigatons upper limit, depending on efficiency. Quite huge by ST standards.

That qualifies as a wallop. So how the hell did it end up in the Delta Quadrant?

IIRC the missile stayed into the badlands and was transported to the delta quadran by the caretaker array.

evilcat4000 wrote:The Dreadnaught episode was terrible. Janeway wanted to sacrifice Voyger to save a nameless unknown species.

Why is that terrible? Their chance to get home in 70 years time weighed against an entire species. (I seem to remember there being the possibility of abandoning ship before it's destruction).

Even if not, thats still a few lives for a few billion. Sounds more like a noble sacrifice than the blatant stupidity you seem to be making it out to be.

On another note: did the thing have any crew? You'd think not since it's a missile, but if not why would the caretaker want it?

Prozac the Robert wrote: Why is that terrible? Their chance to get home in 70 years time weighed against an entire species. (I seem to remember there being the possibility of abandoning ship before it's destruction).

Even if not, thats still a few lives for a few billion. Sounds more like a noble sacrifice than the blatant stupidity you seem to be making it out to be.

She didn't even know who this race was as I recall. For all she knew they could be the nazi's of the DQ.

There's also the fact that Voyagers crew got no say in the matter.

On another note: did the thing have any crew? You'd think not since it's a missile, but if not why would the caretaker want it?

The Dreadnaught missile was not crewed - it was run by a sentinent AI.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Prozac the Robert wrote: Why is that terrible? Their chance to get home in 70 years time weighed against an entire species. (I seem to remember there being the possibility of abandoning ship before it's destruction).

Even if not, thats still a few lives for a few billion. Sounds more like a noble sacrifice than the blatant stupidity you seem to be making it out to be.

She didn't even know who this race was as I recall. For all she knew they could be the nazi's of the DQ.

There's also the fact that Voyagers crew got no say in the matter.

Or they could have been benevolent angels. The fact is a hundred and fifty lives give or take, is not a lot at all balanced against an entire species. And frankly, the crew of Voyager is when all is said and done a military crew and required to obey moral orders. A captain is given the authority to risk, and if necessary cause the death of their crew in order to carry out their mission, so long as it is a moral one. This certainly qualifies as such an incident.

Don't confuse the hackish, anti-discipline writing of Starfleet as bearing any real resemblance to a proper modern military.

IIRC, the Dreadnaught only had one room and one of those Cardassian access tubes. It probably just doesn't have enough internal space to be used as a ship without gutting a lot of essential systems.

What else would it need to be used as a warship?

Prozac the Robert wrote:What else would it need to be used as a warship?

1.) More stations, so the ship doesn't have to be operated by the computer. Tactical, helm, comm, etc.
2.) Someplace to sleep. Even Runabouts have bunks.
3.) Replicators.
4.) Showers and waste extraction.
5.) Spaces for hand weapons stores. Phasers, rifles, etc.
6.) Some cargo space, since often the Maquis have to use their ships for stealing supplies.
7.) And did it have a transporter built in, or was Voyager's the only one used?

My question is why the Maquis didn't keep its weapons. I mean, quantums aren't bad for terrorists. And it's not like the Cardassians are going to pounce all over something clearly Cardassian made.

EDIT: realized Runabouts make a better example than the Defiant.

Prozac the Robert wrote:What else would it need to be used as a warship?

Crew quarters to house the crew and consoles to command the ship.

Stormbringer wrote: And frankly, the crew of Voyager is when all is said and done a military crew and required to obey moral orders. A captain is given the authority to risk, and if necessary cause the death of their crew in order to carry out their mission, so long as it is a moral one. This certainly qualifies as such an incident.

To carry out their mission, yes, but Janeway wasn't carrying out her mission in any way, shape or form. She blatantly disregarded her orders by putting the criminals she was supposed to arrest in command positions on her ship, and the crew should have removed her from command for gross dereliction of duty (if not outright treason) the moment she tried to do it.

Striderteen wrote:

Stormbringer wrote: And frankly, the crew of Voyager is when all is said and done a military crew and required to obey moral orders. A captain is given the authority to risk, and if necessary cause the death of their crew in order to carry out their mission, so long as it is a moral one. This certainly qualifies as such an incident.

To carry out their mission, yes, but Janeway wasn't carrying out her mission in any way, shape or form. She blatantly disregarded her orders by putting the criminals she was supposed to arrest in command positions on her ship, and the crew should have removed her from command for gross dereliction of duty (if not outright treason) the moment she tried to do it.

So you've figured out that Janeway's incompetent. Congratulations. You have eyes.

While I actually liked the fact Janeway would sacrifice her ship and herself (but not her crew) to save some forgettable alien-of-the-week, I can't help but feel the whole scenario was stupid to begin with.

Why, for instance, did the Caretaker bother to suck the Dreadnought AM missile all the way from the AQ to the Delta Quadrant? There wasn't a soul onboard, so there was no reason to do it. Unless the Caretaker's array only worked in the Badlands, at which point I have another reason to fucking hate VOY's pilot episode and premise.

It's like having a splinter on your bare foot. Everytime you walk, it stabs you.

And I find it odd that the Maquis, when given such a boon, couldn't salvage it. The Dreadnought missile was pretty sophisticated for Cardassian hardware. It had a formidable array of weaponry which the maquis could have at least taken it for themselves before retooling it's target.

Meh. It's Voyager. Expect sickness.

It is interesting to note that the Dreadnaight has quantum torpedoes. That makes the Cardassians the only other species except the Federation to have quantum torpedoes. However since the main warships of the Cardassian fleet like the Keldon or the Galor are not armed with quantum torpedoes my guess is the Cardassians stole some quantum torpedoes from the Federation rather than independently develop their own quantum torpedo.

evilcat4000 wrote:It is interesting to note that the Dreadnaight has quantum torpedoes. That makes the Cardassians the only other species except the Federation to have quantum torpedoes. However since the main warships of the Cardassian fleet like the Keldon or the Galor are not armed with quantum torpedoes my guess is the Cardassians stole some quantum torpedoes from the Federation rather than independently develop their own quantum torpedo.

That or quantums are too expensive for the Cardassians to deploy fleet wide. Or maybe only the Obsidian Order has them and they built the Dreadnaught.

how big was this 'dreadnaught' anyway?

I got the fealing it was a new type of Cardasian ship. It packed a wallep, but not considerably moreso then what a heavy Starship could put out in a reasnoable timeframe. It was more about the Cardasians working on ways to level the playing field with their enemies. Its little more then a glorified cruise missile. It was equiped with a quasi cloaking device and enough defensive weapons to be imune to anything an Intrepid class could throw at it.

My guess was that it was specificaly deisnged to be a weapon to get rid of the Maquis once and for all. Just one day a hundred of the things fly into the DMZ and destroy all the Maquis worlds. The Cardasians have their hands completly cleen, their fleet was nowhere near it and had nothing to do with it. Which is Bullshit, but really something that no-one is going to be able to prove.

Except when the test missile failed utterly to take out its target, they decided to quietly drop the whole thing.

Col. Crackpot wrote:how big was this 'dreadnaught' anyway?

The Cardassian Dreadnaught was around 300 meters long I believe juding by the visuals.

Stofsk wrote:Why, for instance, did the Caretaker bother to suck the Dreadnought AM missile all the way from the AQ to the Delta Quadrant? There wasn't a soul onboard, so there was no reason to do it.

We don't know how much the Caretaker knew of the Dreadnaught before it hijacked it, from halfway across the Milky Way it might not have been able to scan the ships interior well enough to know that it had no crew.

Stofsk wrote:And I find it odd that the Maquis, when given such a boon, couldn't salvage it. The Dreadnought missile was pretty sophisticated for Cardassian hardware. It had a formidable array of weaponry which the maquis could have at least taken it for themselves before retooling it's target.

True, however Torres sent the missile to attack the Cardassian depot on her own with out asking Chakotay.