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I just watched ST6 and there was some intresting data on cloaking devices and weapon fire. General Changs BOP decloaks partly when it fires. So why doesn't E-A or Excelsior fire on BOP when fires on other one? The Scimitar. also decloaks when it fires.

Lord Revan wrote:I just watched ST6 and there was some intresting data on cloaking devices and weapon fire. General Changs BOP decloaks partly when it fires. So why doesn't E-A or Excelsior fire on BOP when fires on other one? The Scimitar. also decloaks when it fires.

see Trials & Tribble-ations for the explanation.

Matt Huang wrote:see Trials & Tribble-ations for the explanation.

I can't. So could you just say it.

Lord Revan wrote:I just watched ST6 and there was some intresting data on cloaking devices and weapon fire. General Changs BOP decloaks partly when it fires. So why doesn't E-A or Excelsior fire on BOP when fires on other one? The Scimitar. also decloaks when it fires.

E-E vs Scimitar was much easier to hit the Reman vessle due to it's massive profile. Also, the EE has quite a few more weapons systems than the E-A does, and is also more maneuverable, so it can cover all angles of attack better.

The E-A and Excelsior vs the BOP is differenet. The BOP is a VERY small vessel (crew's only 15 IIRC), and she's considerably more maneuverable than the Scimitar. Taking this into account, and added to the fact that although visually she partially decloaks when launching the torps there is no evidence that she becomes a better SENSOR target when she does so, it's fairly easy to see why Kirk and Sulu didn't waste shots on something that was only visible for ~3 seconds visually and would be long gone by the time return fire came.

Lord Revan wrote:I just watched ST6 and there was some intresting data on cloaking devices and weapon fire. General Changs BOP decloaks partly when it fires. So why doesn't E-A or Excelsior fire on BOP when fires on other one? The Scimitar. also decloaks when it fires.

Changs BOP becomes visible for only for a very short time. It is not possible to aim a phaser or torpedo launcher in such a short time.

Might a good analogy be trying to shoot, in a completely dark room, at a muzzle flash you saw out of the corner of your eye and hit it, all within the span of a couple of seconds?

Uraniun235 wrote:Might a good analogy be trying to shoot, in a completely dark room, at a muzzle flash you saw out of the corner of your eye and hit it, all within the span of a couple of seconds?

You do have time to fire at full auto at general direction of flash, not very very ammo friendly but it might work.

Lord Revan wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:Might a good analogy be trying to shoot, in a completely dark room, at a muzzle flash you saw out of the corner of your eye and hit it, all within the span of a couple of seconds?

You do have time to fire at full auto at general direction of flash, not very very ammo friendly but it might work.

Now say its a zero G room 1000m * 1000m * 1000m and the flash was at the said extreme range, do you think you'll hit the bad guy?

Especialy when the E-A didn't have anything like an automatic weapon. The BOP was visable for less then 1 second total during the torpedo firing. To detect the launch, train a weapon and fire will take far too long, the BOP will be long gone before you get a solid hit.

And from what I remember, Kirk was more playing for time for Excelessor and her far more sensitive scanners to arrive.

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:Might a good analogy be trying to shoot, in a completely dark room, at a muzzle flash you saw out of the corner of your eye and hit it, all within the span of a couple of seconds?

You do have time to fire at full auto at general direction of flash, not very very ammo friendly but it might work.

Now say its a zero G room 1000m * 1000m * 1000m and the flash was at the said extreme range, do you think you'll hit the bad guy?

Especialy when the E-A didn't have anything like an automatic weapon. The BOP was visable for less then 1 second total during the torpedo firing. To detect the launch, train a weapon and fire will take far too long, the BOP will be long gone before you get a solid hit.

And from what I remember, Kirk was more playing for time for Excelessor and her far more sensitive scanners to arrive.

The E-nil could have its weapons under computer control TOS (in "balance of terror" I think, I'm not sure.) So why couldn't E-A do this also.

Lord Revan wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: You do have time to fire at full auto at general direction of flash, not very very ammo friendly but it might work.

Now say its a zero G room 1000m * 1000m * 1000m and the flash was at the said extreme range, do you think you'll hit the bad guy?

Especialy when the E-A didn't have anything like an automatic weapon. The BOP was visable for less then 1 second total during the torpedo firing. To detect the launch, train a weapon and fire will take far too long, the BOP will be long gone before you get a solid hit.

And from what I remember, Kirk was more playing for time for Excelessor and her far more sensitive scanners to arrive.

The E-nil could have its weapons under computer control TOS (in "balance of terror" I think, I'm not sure.) So why couldn't E-A do this also.

because the cloaked BOP isn't decloaked long enough to be detected via older sensors.

Here's how it works:
TOS era sensors worked on a pulse system, somewhat similar to radar or sonar. The sensors would throw out a pulse and get the return signals. However, if you can decloak & recloak in between these sensor pulses, your still for all intents and purposes invisible to the cloak. Computer control wouldn't help because it would dismiss a single anomalous reading as a sensors ghost.

Didn't that BOP also emit abnormal radiation before it fired?

I do believe that by the time of Nemesis Starfleet sensors were good enough that they were hitting the Scimitar quite often once they found it. The firing through the cloak allowed the Scimitar to get some first strikes in, but most of the time once she fired it let her enemies imediately track her and fire in return. Bassed on the shield impacts they were even able to predict her future movements to a degree.

Matt Huang wrote:because the cloaked BOP isn't decloaked long enough to be detected via older sensors.

Here's how it works:
TOS era sensors worked on a pulse system, somewhat similar to radar or sonar. The sensors would throw out a pulse and get the return signals. However, if you can decloak & recloak in between these sensor pulses, your still for all intents and purposes invisible to the cloak. Computer control wouldn't help because it would dismiss a single anomalous reading as a sensors ghost.

Unless you tell the computer to target sensor ghosts and other anomalous readings (like neutron spike from the BOP).

My WAG is that cloaking devices are partially subspace technology...as the photorp is launched, the sustainer engines briefly illuminated the hull.