NX-01 vs NCC-1701-D

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-06-01 11:49pm

The NX-class Enterprise, in the condition it was in at the beginning of season 3, is thrown into the 24th century and crosses paths with the Enterprise-D. They fight, and, through the intervetion of a variety of plot devices, the NX-01 is able to disable the D while taking very little damage itself, and is now attempting to board the Galaxy Class ship.

Due to damage incurred during the battle, the Enterprise-D's internal security systems (forcefields, etc) are offline, as are their transporters. However, since they forgot to put fresh explosives in the bridge consoles that morning, all of the crew are still alive.

Will the MACOs be able to overcome their numerical disadvantage and take the ship, or will the gold-shirts prevail?

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-06-01 11:59pm

Man the E-D will punk the NX-01 like nothing before. First even if the NX-01 was to disable the E-D, the E-D will withstand the attack of the NX-01.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-06-02 12:01am

The MACOs are in serious trouble because they lack character shields and by the time of the E-D the standard Starfleet tactic is to use bridge officers against boarding parties. Bridge officers, alas, DO have character shields. Thus the fact that the MACOs are better trained with better-designed equipment will do them no good.

On a slightly more serious note, I don't know the exact Security team complement of the E-D. For that matter I'm not sure how big the full MACO team on the NX-01 is, something like a dozen soldiers as I recall.

Nowhere near enough to capture and hold a Galaxy-class starship, since they'll be facing resistance both from the standard Security forces and any other crew members that can acquire phasers.

Though it IS possibly at least one of the MACOs will die from falling over and cracking his skull laughing at the design of the phasers issued to Starfleet Security.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-06-02 12:22am

Sure Phasers suck, but they are moderately skilled with them and the ranking officers aren't bad with them. The Macos lose to numbers.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-06-02 12:59am

Depends on how ruthless the MACOs are willing to be. If they start taking a bunch of hostages and/or Main Engineering and start making threats, they might distract Picard long enough to be able to pull something on him.

Personally though, with odds of ~600 (I'm not counting the civvies) against however many MACOs the NX carries, and an absence of a shitty plot (i.e. as long as it isn't another Rascals), I'd go with the Ent-D.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-02 02:24am

In "Rascals" 7 Ferengi were able to take over the Enterprise by holding the bridge crew hostage so the MACOs stand a good chance if they employ hostage taking tactics.

However if the MACOs choose to fight in a honorable way they lose due to lack of numbers. The Enterprise-D was supposed to have around 1014 people aboard according to one TNG episode.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-06-02 02:33am

How many MACOs are there? If there were more than, say, two squads then I'd give it to them, assuming they can somehow divine the layout of the E-D.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-06-02 12:29pm

Howedar wrote:How many MACOs are there? If there were more than, say, two squads then I'd give it to them, assuming they can somehow divine the layout of the E-D.

Not to hard. Since a full layout of the ship could be found in the nursery computer with minimal effort it seems plaisible for the MACO's can get their hands on the layout of the ship for them to use to plan their raids.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-06-02 12:31pm

Anarchist Bunny wrote:Sure Phasers suck, but they are moderately skilled with them and the ranking officers aren't bad with them. The Macos lose to numbers.

[Sarcasam]Yeah having the abbility to vapourize a human really sucks.[/Sarcasam]
A Maco team would probally be able to take the ship if they have schemeatics of the Ent-D.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-06-02 12:37pm

I haven't seen the MACOs, I don't know how good they are; however, if a small group of Ferengi Pirates could take over the Enterprise, and fucking WORF could get owned by them, then FUCK character 'shields' - they're not much of an advantage when frankly rediculous events occur like "Rascals."

IIRC that genetically modified supersoldier also played havoc with the internal security onboard the Enterprise. It's not so much a question of "Will the MACOs win" it's more along the lines of "What can the E-D crew do from losing due to incompetence?"

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-06-02 01:41pm

If seven Ferengi can do it, the MACOs can do it. Given the scenario, the MACOs win without any trouble.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-06-02 03:42pm

Laird wrote:
Anarchist Bunny wrote:Sure Phasers suck, but they are moderately skilled with them and the ranking officers aren't bad with them. The Macos lose to numbers.
[Sarcasam]Yeah having the abbility to vapourize a human really sucks.[/Sarcasam]
A Maco team would probally be able to take the ship if they have schemeatics of the Ent-D.

He wasn't talking about the firepower capabilities of a phaser. He's talking about the physical design. Phasers, by TNG, are so ridiculously poorly-designed that the fact anybody can hit a target with them at more than 10 feet is a minor miracle. Kinda like the baton (dildo?) looking guns on Andromeda.

Anyway, being able to vaporize a person is cute, but I'd rather have a gun I can aim easily and will blow a nice hole through them without counting on NDF effects like the phasers do. If I blow a fist-sized hole through someone's entire chest, they're dead. Bodies can be disposed of via transporter later, after all.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-02 05:27pm

You're wrong. The instant that the NX will try to kick the D's ass and win, then it will be WE here at SD.Net who will seize control of both ships, aim their weapons at the Paramount lot, and use gunboat diplomacy to get B/B out of there and some decent writers in.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-06-03 04:09am

Any surprise that Rascals was a Braga product?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-06-03 05:43am

To be fair, there was a ferengi warrior tradition when they first appeared, and they were a dangerous, aggresive race.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-06-03 09:48am

NecronLord wrote:To be fair, there was a ferengi warrior tradition when they first appeared, and they were a dangerous, aggresive race.

I know. Scarry how far they have fallen isn't it?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-03 10:24am

Uraniun235 wrote:Any surprise that Rascals was a Braga product?

The stupid part of Rascals is why they never used the technology of eternal youth. Picard got the chance to be young again and yet he chose to be a bald old man.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-03 02:06pm

evilcat4000 wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Any surprise that Rascals was a Braga product?
The stupid part of Rascals is why they never used the technology of eternal youth. Picard got the chance to be young again and yet he chose to be a bald old man.

Typical Braga episode; interesting premise, but a great letdown.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-06-03 02:08pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:
NecronLord wrote:To be fair, there was a ferengi warrior tradition when they first appeared, and they were a dangerous, aggresive race.
I know. Scarry how far they have fallen isn't it?

They didn't fall very far, to be honest. At most, they were regarded just as "angry gerbils," as one production member said.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-03 02:12pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:
NecronLord wrote:To be fair, there was a ferengi warrior tradition when they first appeared, and they were a dangerous, aggresive race.
I know. Scarry how far they have fallen isn't it?
They didn't fall very far, to be honest. At most, they were regarded just as "angry gerbils," as one production member said.

Yep, angry gerbils that were uppoused to be the next Klingons until it failed horribly -- hence the creation of the pre-VGR Borg.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-06-03 07:44pm

No, the Romulans came to take the role that the Klingons held in TOS, as the Federation's approximate equal in galactic power. The Borg's role in TNG was much different than the Klingons' role in TOS, as the Borg were generally invulnerable to any conventional attack the Federation could muster at the time.

Frankly, I think the Borg should have simply been dropped after Best of Both Worlds, and the Federation left to wonder if there were any more cubes.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-03 09:39pm

Uraniun235 wrote:No, the Romulans came to take the role that the Klingons held in TOS, as the Federation's approximate equal in galactic power. The Borg's role in TNG was much different than the Klingons' role in TOS, as the Borg were generally invulnerable to any conventional attack the Federation could muster at the time.

Frankly, I think the Borg should have simply been dropped after Best of Both Worlds, and the Federation left to wonder if there were any more cubes.

Yes, then we would never have had Descent or VGR's fuck-up of the Collective.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-06-04 01:33am

"Descent" wasn't bad; I like Lore, after all. I just hated it for the stupidity (starship captained by the CMO? Pushing equal opportunity a bit too far, methinks...). It was "I, Borg" which really pissed me off, and made certain the Borg not only were wankers but so was the Federation.

I think the problem with the Borg was the weird 'adaption' shield. If they had just said "The Cube is 10x as big, which means it has 10x more shielding, which means you'll need 10x the firepower for it to even notice you're there" I would have accepted it. But no, they have to show the Borg 'adapting' to phaser blasts and photorps.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-06-04 01:41am

No, adaptation in its original form was slightly reasonable. It was not a magical technowank ability, it was just trying out several things till something worked.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-06-04 01:48am

Howedar wrote:No, adaptation in its original form was slightly reasonable. It was not a magical technowank ability, it was just trying out several things till something worked.

You mean spontaneously adapting to the deflector dish attack, even though they couldn't have had Picard for very long? It may have been slightly reasonable within limits, say the Borg needing significant time to adapt (and by significant, I mean more than a couple hours); the trouble is, they seemed to adapt quickly. A couple phaser blasts kill a couple drones; the next one has a shield which blocks it easily. A span of minutes from one to the other.