Photons Torpedos in ST:TMP.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-05-28 04:49pm

I was watching ST:TMP earlier today before I threw in my ROTK dvd, for the first time I noticed the asteroid and a PT in TMP(I haven't watched ST:TMP since I was like 12 or something...) Anyways the enterprise goes into a quasi-warp/worm hole and a asteroid is pulled in aswell. The Enterprise is about to hit it and kirk orders "Phasers!" etc..the first officer shoots down the order and orders chekov to lob a torpedo at it.

The bald helmswoman says the asteroid is "1.37" something...I am assuming it is KM...I can't make out what she says.(Anyone have a script?)

The Enterprise fires here "Blue" Photon torpedo and destroys the 1.37km(?) to bits.

If this has been done before I won't apologize, I did a search back on the board and found nothing for the last threeish months.

here are my images(Also if the resolution isn't high enough TS, I don't have a dvd copy...I had to screen cap of my VHS copy)

Debate,calculate etc...

Images

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-05-28 04:56pm

erm. debate what exactly? i don't quite see what you're trying to get across.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-05-28 04:57pm

Darth_Zod wrote:erm. debate what exactly? i don't quite see what you're trying to get across.

oops brain fart.... sorry I've just been going back and reading some of the "PT firepower" threads in the PST etc..and most claim crappy levels of "a few kt's" etc...

I thought this atleast might give trek a better torpedo level?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-28 05:08pm

Plugging it into the asteroid calc brings out 12.1MT. Which is...crap. That is cratering by the way. I highly doubt it is vaporising in that scene (next level up).

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-05-28 05:08pm

According to the asteroid destruction calculator, you'd need about 2.6MT to fragment an asteroid of that diameter.

EDIT: Hard to judge the size of the fragments from those screenshots. I'll see if I can dig up my TMP DE and get some better screenies.

EDIT 2: (sigh) First time in over a year I actually wanted to watch that snore-fest, and the disc proves to be scratched beyond usefulness.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-28 05:23pm

That certainly isn't Fragmenting, the size of the chunks left would be painfully obvious if it fragmented.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-05-28 05:30pm

I seem to remember there being noticeably large chunks when the asteroid was destroyed in the DE version. But going off the screenshots, cratering is probably the most reasonable.

Which brings up a point - if the chunks in the DE version did prove to be much larger, which version would be taken as canon?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-28 05:54pm

Depends, did Greedo shoot first?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-28 08:17pm

Since the Directors Cut is far superior to the original, I say DC is the authoritative canon.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-05-28 09:44pm

Anybody with the DC want to give some better screens?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-05-28 10:58pm

Laird wrote:The bald helmswoman says the asteroid is "1.37" something...I am assuming it is KM...I can't make out what she says.(Anyone have a script?)

http://www.allmoviescripts.com/scripts/ ... de2d3.html

ILIA
Object is an asteroid, reading
mass point seven...

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-05-28 11:14pm

Wayne, are you certain the script accurately reflects the movie?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-05-28 11:18pm

Howedar wrote:Wayne, are you certain the script accurately reflects the movie?

Not at this time. My TMP is buried right now.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-05-28 11:23pm

Okay.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-05-29 04:27am

Here is the dialogue from the TMP DE:

ILIA: Object is an asteroid. Reading mass/mark .7

(The subtitles say it's "mass" but it sure as hell sounds like "mark" to me.)

I took my DVD player and had it 'step' through the entire sequence of the asteroid explosion, and captured each step. If someone really wants it, I can give them all of the captured frames, but for now I'll just present the ones I thought were most relevant.

The very first frame of the scene. The torpedo has yet to impact.
The first frame of the explosion. It almost seems to be coming from within the asteroid.
The next frame. Explody.
A few frames later.
A few more frames. We begin to see some real debris flying away.
Nine frames further. Quite a bit of debris now.
Another nine frames. Some fair-sized chunks.
The second to last frame.

Please note that the use of the term "frame" isn't strictly accurate; the sequence is a few seconds long, yet my DVD player's "step" function only gave me 36 captures.

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2004-05-29 11:07am

That looks to me to be vapourisation, with just a few chunks left. The fact that you can see stars through the cloud sugests gas to me anyway.

That puts it at 9.9 gigatons, which does seem a little inconsistant

. A quick messing around with numbers tells me that that torpedo must have contained over 200kg of antimatter for that kind of firepower.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-05-29 11:44am

Was that scene re-made for the special DVD edition?
Because I don't remember it being that way in the cinematic edition.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-29 11:48am

Prozac the Robert wrote:That looks to me to be vapourisation, with just a few chunks left. The fact that you can see stars through the cloud sugests gas to me anyway.

That puts it at 9.9 gigatons, which does seem a little inconsistant . A quick messing around with numbers tells me that that torpedo must have contained over 200kg of antimatter for that kind of firepower.

Vapourization does not leave any chunks behind, and there is no reliable information on the size of the asteroid.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-29 09:10pm

Does the TMP Novel give anything to work with?

I know the novels are not canon, but didn't Roddenbury write that one?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-29 10:05pm

Tribun wrote:Was that scene re-made for the special DVD edition?
Because I don't remember it being that way in the cinematic edition.

I don't believe they did anything at all to that scene for the Director's Edition. When I watched the movie with both audio and text commentaries, I don't remember either mentioning any changes.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-05-30 02:25am

Solauren wrote:Does the TMP Novel give anything to work with?

I know the novels are not canon, but didn't Roddenbury write that one?

Says it was nickel-iorn, mountain sized (610 m across and upward) and fragmented, not vaporised.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-05-30 04:22am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Tribun wrote:Was that scene re-made for the special DVD edition?
Because I don't remember it being that way in the cinematic edition.
I don't believe they did anything at all to that scene for the Director's Edition. When I watched the movie with both audio and text commentaries, I don't remember either mentioning any changes.

Look at the pictures Laird posted. The VFX shot of the asteroid being destroyed was remade.

Also, there's added and changed sound effects all over the movie... quite a few of which I wouldn't have messed with, but oh well.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-30 04:25am

Meh, it's been two years...

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-31 03:19am

I know the novels are not canon, but didn't Roddenbury write that one

Rodenberry did write the TMP novel.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-01 10:17am

Darth Wong wrote: Vapourization does not leave any chunks behind, and there is no reliable information on the size of the asteroid.

no way to get a rough estimate? is there any point in the scene where we see the asteroid in close proximity to something we know the dimensions of...like the Enterprise or the torpedo? That's how you determined the size of the asteroid in the Turbolaser Commentaries, isn't it?

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Photons Torpedos in ST:TMP.

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