viewer response, a rant and spoliers of 'Zero Hour'

hewhocaves · Post by **hewhocaves** » 2004-05-27 04:46pm

I never ever want to meet someone in RL who thinks that the end of 'Zero Hour' was 'wonderful'. Especially not when I have a hatchet in my hand. And yet, trekBBS seems to be full of them. Could we get their names and emails...?

You know, it wouldn't have been bad if it was just your typical time travel episode, the sort of 'oops!' we got knocked back two hundred years and ha! ha! we're stuck with a bunch of 1940s Nazis (noogie the Nazis, please - aren't you the cutest little fascists.. who wants to take over the world? you want to take over the world.. you're not going to... no your're not. In about three years, all you'll have is bald disgruntled teenagers on your side.) It would be fun ala Quark and the commies (well if you won't deal with us, then we'll just talk to these "Ruskies' instead).

But no, we can't have good things in our house. We have to have aliens. Where the hell is Fox Mulder when you need him? Don't laugh, they may be trying to get David Duchovny as we speak for the role. What role? Who knows, who cares? Trek has officially sunk to 'Phantom Menace' levels and maybe even to the Simpsons parody level (I loved the AT-AT sitting in the council chamber). Great. That's now two of the four series from my childhood that have completely crapped out on me. Whats next? Doctor Who is gay? No wonder he missed Adric so much.

By the end of the episode, I really didn't sweat the minor stuff. Yeah, earth was compleltely undefended. But hey, the alien ship was too. Seriously, that was more a matter of TV budget than anything else. (and by proxy, a matter of BnB's lack of imagination, too. Geez, how ever did they manage to do large space battles in the past with a limited budget? And I didn't even notice T'Pol's missing the right year, though I would almost guess that that was more malice on her part. Either that or she's become forgetful. She's become so forgetful, i didn't see any panty lines on her uniform, or does Vulcan have 'thong' technology? (and does it trigger Pon Farr?) If not, then hey, that's some of the valuable technology that Earth can give the federation. (what do you have? We have a sort of hologramatic environment - What do you have? We have underwear with no fabric in the back. Ooooh!)

However the people who seriously think that this is something 'new' or 'dramatic' or 'mind boggling' really need to leave that darkened room they call their home and venture into the real world. Nazis... Nazis for chrissakes. The most overplayed and overused stock villian of the last half century. Who wants to bet BnB bought a copy of the Indiana Jones DVD the night before they wrote this drivel? But wait, it gets better, these are alien Nazis. Cause' they're blue and have brow ridges. I mean I know reading is down in this country, but comic books too? You get better plot lines in JLA. I don't know which is worse, tweedledee who wrote this pile of steaming turds or tweedledum, who loved it. (again, btw, for those of who who liked this ending and consequently don't know who Tweedledee and Tweedledum are, they are actual characters in 'Through the Looking Glass' by Lewis Carroll which is an actual book with words. Try the children's section for the version with the pretty pictures)

The one amazingly small hope that we have to cling to in this world where the good turns to crap is that maybe, just maybe the converse will also be true and the crap will turn to gold. To that end I recommend that we set up message boards for the new 'Battlestar Galactica' series and the remake of 'Space 1999'. But those series won't last long because the whining masses will no doubt immediatley complain about the throbbing between their ears when they watch it and even though we'll tell them that that's just their brain finially waking up from it's long stupor they won't listen and in-between their fits of drooling will call for the show's cancellation.

Ok, I'm done for the moment. gotta pack and go camping. Must leave this seething mass of moronity.

(erratta: I do not mean to play down the horrors of WW2 at all. Seriously. I'm of Polish descent and my gf is Jewish. Yes, we're poster people for all of the nasties that the baddies could think of doing to their fellow travellers and I've got uncles with lovely strings of numbers on their arms to prove it. There's a book in the new releases section of BN called 'Rising '44" by Norman Daives which is an excellent WW2 book -though a bit long at 700 pages. I wanted to post this last bit because of one of the few decent posts I'd read where someone commented that it really sucks that it sure looks like we're now not going to be able to get through WW2 without the help of the future. It really does diminish the contributions in life and death of the people who did actually do it. I have to tend to agree. BnB had all of space and time to choose from, and it shows a real lack of depth on their part (Or even consciousness) to drag us once agin back here for some stupid hollywood crap.

John

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-27 06:02pm

As I said before, I think the reaction to this ending would have been better if B&B hadn't spent the last 11 years using time travel as their default plot-o-crutch. Imagine for a second a more sensible universe, when the last time travel Trek episode was, say, VOY "Year of Hell". You can get away with thinking like that because the so-called "temporal cold war" has really had no impact on ENT from a storytelling standpoint. Anyway, we're back to the last scene of "Zero Hour", with Enterprise approaching Earth, which refuses to answer their hails. The shuttlepod is dispatched. Remember, we haven't had a time travel episode since the 4th season of Voyager. NOW the P-51s come roaring up over the bay and fire on the shuttlepod. THAT'S cool, THAT'S shocking, THAT'S kickass.

But sadly, because monkeys have been running this franchise, it's not cool, shocking, or kickass. It's Yet Another Lame-Ass Time Travel Plot.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2004-05-27 10:49pm

When the pod was approaching Earth and you heard the pitter-patter against the hull, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. I thought "No, that can't be machine gun fire". Then I saw the mustangs flying by, and the weird alien "Nazi". Fucking beautiful.

AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! I hate time travel!!!!!!

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-05-28 03:08am

Yeah, earth was compleltely undefended. But hey, the alien ship was too. Seriously, that was more a matter of TV budget than anything else.

What the hell is this "limited budget" shit, anyhow? That seems to be their stock lie whenever someone calls them on their lethargic battles, yet Babylon 5 seemed to get by just fine with showing impressive space battles.

I guess the insane number of producers on the show must be sucking up the budget. Wonder how many are buddies of B&B...

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2004-05-28 07:42pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
Yeah, earth was compleltely undefended. But hey, the alien ship was too. Seriously, that was more a matter of TV budget than anything else.
What the hell is this "limited budget" shit, anyhow? That seems to be their stock lie whenever someone calls them on their lethargic battles, yet Babylon 5 seemed to get by just fine with showing impressive space battles.

I guess the insane number of producers on the show must be sucking up the budget. Wonder how many are buddies of B&B...

earth was fucked up long before the weapon came. If you notice no one was manning any of the technology. Somthign else was happening.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-29 02:37am

ali-sama wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
Yeah, earth was compleltely undefended. But hey, the alien ship was too. Seriously, that was more a matter of TV budget than anything else.
What the hell is this "limited budget" shit, anyhow? That seems to be their stock lie whenever someone calls them on their lethargic battles, yet Babylon 5 seemed to get by just fine with showing impressive space battles.

I guess the insane number of producers on the show must be sucking up the budget. Wonder how many are buddies of B&B...
earth was fucked up long before the weapon came. If you notice no one was manning any of the technology. Somthign else was happening.

Bullshit. The space platform was still there. Earth being utterly undefended was a cheap way to build the suspense, not the result of any logical storytelling.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-29 09:57pm

Is it possible the Nazis heard him muttering about aliens and decided to have one of their number put on some make-up?

Hey, I know it's absurd but it might actually make a tiny bit of sense!

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2004-05-29 10:12pm

RedImperator wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote: What the hell is this "limited budget" shit, anyhow? That seems to be their stock lie whenever someone calls them on their lethargic battles, yet Babylon 5 seemed to get by just fine with showing impressive space battles.

I guess the insane number of producers on the show must be sucking up the budget. Wonder how many are buddies of B&B...
earth was fucked up long before the weapon came. If you notice no one was manning any of the technology. Somthign else was happening.
Bullshit. The space platform was still there. Earth being utterly undefended was a cheap way to build the suspense, not the result of any logical storytelling.

read what I said. The technology and buildings where there. They where about to land at their head quarters.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-29 10:23pm

ali-sama wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
ali-sama wrote: earth was fucked up long before the weapon came. If you notice no one was manning any of the technology. Somthign else was happening.
Bullshit. The space platform was still there. Earth being utterly undefended was a cheap way to build the suspense, not the result of any logical storytelling.
read what I said. The technology and buildings where there. They where about to land at their head quarters.

How about you try that again in English. As near as I can tell, you're saying something happened to all the people on Earth to prevent them from manning the defenses, but we saw no evidence of the kind anywhere iin the episode. The first time we see the surface of Earth, it's already 1944. Unless and until you provide some kind of evidence "something else was going on", I'm just going to stick with the assumption that the writers and producers of Enterprise are cheap hacks who expect us to believe Earth is utterly undefended, even though in "The Expanse" they could scratch together 3 starships to chase Duras away from Enterprise all the way in the outer Solar System.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2004-05-30 03:53am

RedImperator wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
RedImperator wrote: Bullshit. The space platform was still there. Earth being utterly undefended was a cheap way to build the suspense, not the result of any logical storytelling.
read what I said. The technology and buildings where there. They where about to land at their head quarters.
How about you try that again in English. As near as I can tell, you're saying something happened to all the people on Earth to prevent them from manning the defenses, but we saw no evidence of the kind anywhere iin the episode. The first time we see the surface of Earth, it's already 1944. Unless and until you provide some kind of evidence "something else was going on", I'm just going to stick with the assumption that the writers and producers of Enterprise are cheap hacks who expect us to believe Earth is utterly undefended, even though in "The Expanse" they could scratch together 3 starships to chase Duras away from Enterprise all the way in the outer Solar System.

they where trying to land the shuttle on the suttle landing pad behind star fleet head quarters. this means the building was there, inclding it's pad.
they where wondering why noone was responding to them and NOT why the structures where missing.

they even stated in the shuttle, everything looks ok. This means the geography and physical structures where from their era.

Ali

hewhocaves · Post by **hewhocaves** » 2004-05-31 06:06pm

my original point was simply that BnB took the lazy ass way out and cancelled out the Xindi invasion fleet that would have met the earth defenses. so they have neither. One could jsut as easliy ask what kind of moron sends out a ultra-doomsday weapon that needs time to charge without any support craft. I was no way defending those two toddlers while they poop all over the timeline.

While we're at it, I don't buy the 'enterprise-era' earth got taken over by WWII Nazis. But then Zero Hour may be the actual last episode of Enterprise that I ever watch. I can think of better things to do with my friday evening than watch the tripe they put out. how the heck do you know that the facility isn't some recycled 20th century building, anyway? And even failing that line of reasoning - IMO the minute you start taking this series at is word, you're on some slippery ground. They can't even keep the year consistent!

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-31 08:10pm

What I love even more is that UPN finished LAST in the sweeps for May, with ENT in spot # 151.

AND THEY STILL FUCKING RENEWED IT?!

It's not just B/B that need to go; UPN needs some serious help with its decision-making.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-31 11:01pm

ali-sama wrote:they where trying to land the shuttle on the suttle landing pad behind star fleet head quarters. this means the building was there, inclding it's pad.
they where wondering why noone was responding to them and NOT why the structures where missing.

they even stated in the shuttle, everything looks ok. This means the geography and physical structures where from their era.

Ali

You're leaping to conclusions without a shred of evidence. They saw the Golden Gate Bridge from high altitude and ASSUMED everything was alright (perhaps they were worried the Xindi reptilians had somehow managed to bombard Earth since they couldn't blow it up). At no point did they actually say they spotted Starfleet HQ--they merely assumed that since the bridge was there, so was the building.

We have two possible interpretations of the evidence:

1) it's the 22nd century, but for some reason all the orbital and lunar installations are missing and nobody is picking up the phone at Starfleet headquarters. However, there are P-51 Mustangs flying around, complete with working cannons. Also, for some reason, several humans and one alien are pretending to be Nazis in a WWII vintage battlefield hospital (complete with authentic battle sounds) for Captain Archer's benefit, despite the fact Captain Archer is unconscious. The human actors are so into their parts that they pretend they don't recognize a Starfleet uniform.

2) Somehow, Enterprise has been sent back to 1944.

Your explanation introduces unexplained variables and depends on an exceedingly liberal interpretation of a line of dialogue uttered by a man under stress at high altitude (who had access to sensors which could not distinguish mid-20th century propeller driver fighter aircraft from 22nd century civil aircraft). Mine merely assumes that in a series centered on time travel, we're being treated to yet another time travel plot, this one in cliffhanger form. You'll forgive me if I don't consider your theory superior to mine.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-06-01 12:07am

I cant quote Merryweather's dialogue precisely, but he said something to the effect that he wasnt picking up any of the orbital stations; when on descent in the shuttle, Trip ordered him to land at the SFHQ pad, but there was no mention of having it visually, or any sort of landing beacons being picked up.
The fighters were P-51D models (6 x .50cal ea) so that seems to pin the timeframe as 1944+ (as well as the national markings, they are correct for that era) The Nazi scene was fairly generic, although given the conditions and background noises, that too would seem to be 44-45 (ie - Nazi's getting their asses kicked). Based on the visual evidence, I believe it is some sort of time travel happening, but the unknown (and bizzare) factor is why the heck its not just Archer, but Enterprise as well (and god knows, the Aquatics, and Shran's ship too?) -- how far does this phenomenon extend? Localized to the Terran system, or the quadrant, the Galaxy? Just how big a screwup has Daniels managed this time?

Maybe Q can fix things

Son of the Suns · Post by **Son of the Suns** » 2004-06-01 12:33am

Burak Gazan wrote: Maybe Q can fix things

Don't give them ideas.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-06-01 12:38am

Hell, they thinking about using Shatner as Kirk's grandaddy

, Q would be an improvement on things......

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-06-01 01:40am

Son of the Suns wrote:
Burak Gazan wrote: Maybe Q can fix things

Don't give them ideas.

In my opinion, All Good Things should have been, save for any possible TNG-movies, the last time we saw Q; his dynamic always worked best with Picard where he was truly a figure to be feared and one of Trek's great villains - prior to his demotion known as VGR.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-06-01 01:51am

JME2 wrote:In my opinion, All Good Things should have been, save for any possible TNG-movies, the last time we saw Q; his dynamic always worked best with Picard where he was truly a figure to be feared and one of Trek's great villains - prior to his demotion known as VGR.

Q wasn't really a villain; he was more of a spiteful comedian. Teleporting into Picard's bed was just the icing of the cake.

"Good morning sweetheart."

And from earlier in the episode:

"Q! What is going on here? Where am I?"
"I told you: you're dead, and I'm God."
"You are NOT God!"
"Hmm... perhaps, but I do KNOW him."

You have to admit, he was more hilarious than scary.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-01 01:55am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Yeah, earth was compleltely undefended. But hey, the alien ship was too. Seriously, that was more a matter of TV budget than anything else.
What the hell is this "limited budget" shit, anyhow? That seems to be their stock lie whenever someone calls them on their lethargic battles, yet Babylon 5 seemed to get by just fine with showing impressive space battles.

I guess the insane number of producers on the show must be sucking up the budget. Wonder how many are buddies of B&B...

That's entirely the reason. JMS was responsible with the buget wheres B&B have basically wasted it. Enterprise (and Voyager preceding it) were the highest budgeted sci-fi shows on air. And it's been reported more than a few times it is for paying for a bloated staff, cost over runs, and just plain sloppyness.

Which is why shows like B5, Farscape, and Andromeda (even SG-1) out did them in terms of production values.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2004-06-07 04:53pm

Well, I saw 'Zero Hour' tonight, so I thought I'd comment whilst the episode was fresh in my mind.

The first 50 minutes were entertaining, or at least, I think they were. The twin engagements of the Xindi weapon and the Sphere were handled well, and I felt tense on behalf of the characters. I loved how Archer didn't waste any time on the Reptilian commander- he simply stared at him, stepped behind the beam, and BOOM.

Up until those final, fateful minutes, I would have been prepared to give Zero Hour 8/10, perhaps even 9/10 if feeling generous. But then...

I saw for myself the alien Nazi. More to the point, why had they travelled back in time to WW2 anyway? Why not give the Enterprise crew their glorious homecoming, to much rejoicing? Surely a year of toil and death in the Expanse had earned them (and the viewers) a chance to see that (heh, it occurs to me, Graham Kennedy says the same on his infamous site)?

There were other flaws too. In earth's hour of need, it's defenders are- a single Xindi ship, and an Andorian vessel. Where is the fleet? Where are the orbital and ground-based defences? Surely, knowing for a year that the Xindi were coming, defences would have been prepared?

But it is still this business of alien Nazis and WW2 that baffles me the most. The ending ruined what was otherwise a very watchable episode. Still, I already have theories as to what happened.

Daniels, all knowing time travel guy, saved Archer by whisking him away from the Xindi weapon. Daniels also sent the Enterprise back to save him. Why Daniels can't just then bring them back to their own time is anybodies guess.