Impulse drive

[Enola Straight]

impulse drive seems to have only three speeds; one quarter, half impulse, and full impulse.

Is there any reason why you couldn't have three quarters, one third, one tenth, forty percent ?

[Uraniun235]

I could swear there was an episode somewhere where they ordered a different fraction of impulse power.

My best guess would be that those power levels are optimal in that they represent how many fusion reactors they bring online in the impulse drive... but again, that's just a guess.

[Alan Bolte]

I've never really understood what that means. Given that we see Trek ships leaving space dock at one quarter impulse, that just can't be an acceleration or velocity value. Neither makes any sense. That makes them wallowingly slow, and contradicts numerous maneuvers we've seen accomplished unless we assume warp was momentarily used for said maneuvers.

[Uraniun235]

On the other hand, Kirk and co. say as much that the Enterprise is a wallowing pig at impulse power in the episode Elaan of Troyius.

[Sarevok]

Since impulse is a form of ion drive it should have other speeds as well besides one quarter, half and full impulse. Perhaps this speeds very commonly used standard speeds so we dont hear about other speeds.

[Stark]

Isn't it odd that Fed ships use quarter impulse around starbases, when for each class this would be a different speed? We could imagine, for instance, that 1/4 Defiant speed is fully, dangeous-around-starbases speed for a GCS. Maybe its tied to total availible acceleration in some manuveur function? Silly silly silly.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Isn't it more of a nautical hold over?

[Sarevok]

I've never really understood what that means. Given that we see Trek ships leaving space dock at one quarter impulse, that just can't be an acceleration or velocity value. Neither makes any sense. That makes them wallowingly slow, and contradicts numerous maneuvers we've seen accomplished unless we assume warp was momentarily used for said maneuvers.

Full impulse is supposed to be one quarter light speed. So one quarter impulse should be 6% of lightspeed. Yet when they travell at this speed around starbases ship seems far too slow.

[General Zod]

where's the source for what full impulse is supposed to be, just out of curiosity?

[Knife]

I've never really understood what that means. Given that we see Trek ships leaving space dock at one quarter impulse, that just can't be an acceleration or velocity value. Neither makes any sense. That makes them wallowingly slow, and contradicts numerous maneuvers we've seen accomplished unless we assume warp was momentarily used for said maneuvers.

Full impulse is supposed to be one quarter light speed. So one quarter impulse should be 6% of lightspeed. Yet when they travell at this speed around starbases ship seems far too slow.

Since their acceleration seems to be pretty poor with impulse, it would make sence to just order a decent speed from a realitive standstill even from space dock.

By the time they get out and away from spacedock they still aren't going that fast and perhaps are still accelerating.

Why keep ordering an incrimental increase in speed every couple of minutes when it takes minutes just to achieve that speed. Might as well order a 1/4 impulse and wait the 30 minutes (pulling number out of ass) to get there.

[Howedar]

where's the source for what full impulse is supposed to be, just out of curiosity?

TNGTM

On the other hand, Kirk and co. say as much that the Enterprise is a wallowing pig at impulse power in the episode Elaan of Troyius.

Kinda disproved by the escape scene in ST3.

[Chris OFarrell]

where's the source for what full impulse is supposed to be, just out of curiosity?

TNGTM

On the other hand, Kirk and co. say as much that the Enterprise is a wallowing pig at impulse power in the episode Elaan of Troyius.

Kinda disproved by the escape scene in ST3.

*shrug* Depends on the episode / movie. Impulse speeds change as often as my wallpapers. In ST3 it took them minuites to clear spacedock at 1/4 impulse. And the Excelessor as well, if you wanted to say it was because the Enterprise was damaged, she took the same sort of time at 1/4 impulse.

On the other hand in ST6, Enteprise cleared the Spacedock from a standing start in about 5 seconds at 1/4 impulse....

[Uraniun235]

On the other hand, Kirk and co. say as much that the Enterprise is a wallowing pig at impulse power in the episode Elaan of Troyius.

Kinda disproved by the escape scene in ST3.

The Enterprise escaped from Spacedock quite gracefully, but it wasn't anything particularly swift or fancy... I can't imagine most competent gunners or helmsmen having a really hard time trying to get a fix on the Enterprise given her manuevers in that scene.

Besides which, the impulse drive was likely an upgraded system during the refit.

[Patrick Degan]

The problem is that the terminology is totally wrong. Somebody mentioned that the references to speed are a holdover from nautical terminology. Except possibly for the first pilot, the writers seem never to have understood the concept of velocity in space; how there is no real "maximum speed" (except for c in a vacuum), that a ship will continue accelerating as long as engine power is applied, and more importantly that it isn't really possible to cut back on velocity simply by dialing a switch.

Whereas if the writers had resorted to measures of applied engine power instead of speed, they'd have been far closer to the reality of space travel. It is far more realistic if "one-quarter impulse" refers to 25% of the reactor output, or if "Warp 2" refers to the warp engines operating at 20% capacity rather than attempting to tie said values to a measure of speed. The writers would also have rather neatly avoided several continuity glitches that have cropped up with the inconsistencies in the various speed/travel time references in the episodes. Indeed, it would have been possible to have left the entire speed question unanswered, and in science fiction it seems to be a rule that the more that is left unexplained, the better.

[Ender]

The problem is that the terminology is totally wrong. Somebody mentioned that the references to speed are a holdover from nautical terminology. Except possibly for the first pilot, the writers seem never to have understood the concept of velocity in space; how there is no real "maximum speed" (except for c in a vacuum), that a ship will continue accelerating as long as engine power is applied, and more importantly that it isn't really possible to cut back on velocity simply by dialing a switch.

Not entirely true, you also have an upper limit based on your materials or shielding tech. A collision with a micrometeorite or flying through a dust cloud at relativistic speeds can really chew a ship up, so the ship itself can't go any faster then a certain speed or those collisions will destroy itself.


Perhaps the "one quarter" bit has somethign to do with the number of ejecta feeders attached to the engine? My understanding of impulse engines is that they work similar to those hydrogen fed fission engiens currently on the drawing board only they use fusion instead. If ther are 4 feeders for the hydrogen, then 1/4 would be one tube, 1/2 two tubes, etc.

[Patrick Degan]

The problem is that the terminology is totally wrong. Somebody mentioned that the references to speed are a holdover from nautical terminology. Except possibly for the first pilot, the writers seem never to have understood the concept of velocity in space; how there is no real "maximum speed" (except for c in a vacuum), that a ship will continue accelerating as long as engine power is applied, and more importantly that it isn't really possible to cut back on velocity simply by dialing a switch.

Not entirely true, you also have an upper limit based on your materials or shielding tech. A collision with a micrometeorite or flying through a dust cloud at relativistic speeds can really chew a ship up, so the ship itself can't go any faster then a certain speed or those collisions will destroy itself.

Those are merely technical problems that can be solved presuming you have the engineering knowhow in the first place to design a ship capable of high relativistic velocities.

Perhaps the "one quarter" bit has somethign to do with the number of ejecta feeders attached to the engine? My understanding of impulse engines is that they work similar to those hydrogen fed fission engiens currently on the drawing board only they use fusion instead. If ther are 4 feeders for the hydrogen, then 1/4 would be one tube, 1/2 two tubes, etc.

That would also be a measure of engine capacity. But it's been made clear in enough episodes and the films that the dialogue is always referring to units of speed.

[Alyeska]

FYI, the Enterprise-D has done FTL using Impulse engines.

[SirNitram]

FYI, the Enterprise-D has done FTL using Impulse engines.

Which episode was this?

[Patrick Degan]

FYI, the Enterprise-D has done FTL using Impulse engines.

Which episode was this?

The only one I can think of, possibly, was "Conspiracy", when Riker ordered a warp increase to get to Pacifica and Geordi replied "Aye, sir. Full impulse." But the ship was already at warp, and we've never seen it initiate warp without its main engines.

[Howedar]

It was in BOBW.

[Major Diarrhia]

Since impulse is a form of ion drive it should have other speeds as well besides one quarter, half and full impulse. Perhaps this speeds very commonly used standard speeds so we dont hear about other speeds.

Impulse engines can't possibly be ion drives unless they're shooting globs of lead out. The only way they could reach even 1/4 c is to use mass litening, which is a property subspace fields. Take that with the instances of faster than ligth travel and fast as light travel while at impulse, means they can be nothing other than a weak warp drive.

On the other hand, Kirk and co. say as much that the Enterprise is a wallowing pig at impulse power in the episode Elaan of Troyius.

If I'm not mistaken, that was in comparision to warp propulsion, which had been disabled by the Klingons wher were warp strafing them.

Isn't it odd that Fed ships use quarter impulse around starbases, when for each class this would be a different speed? We could imagine, for instance, that 1/4 Defiant speed is fully, dangeous-around-starbases speed for a GCS. Maybe its tied to total availible acceleration in some manuveur function? Silly silly silly.

It's actualy regulation that they use thrusters in and around space dock. If impulse really has a max speed of c or slightly better, then the impulse fractions are for the most part fractions of c with little varience between class'.

where's the source for what full impulse is supposed to be, just out of curiosity?

From me, don't use the TM, it isn't canon.

[Major Diarrhia]

It was in BOBW.

And we saw fast as light travel, or near it in ENT "Singularity" or may have been "Doctor's Order's".

[Alyeska]

FYI, the Enterprise-D has done FTL using Impulse engines.

Which episode was this?

"Best of Both Worlds PT2" TNG. In this episode the Enterprise comes out of warp near Saturn and is told they can intercept the Borg cube in less then 30 minutes. The last known location of the Borg ship was Mars. Using the closest orbital approach the Enterprise had to be moving at FTL speeds, yet it was at impulse.

[Gil Hamilton]

"Best of Both Worlds PT2" TNG. In this episode the Enterprise comes out of warp near Saturn and is told they can intercept the Borg cube in less then 30 minutes. The last known location of the Borg ship was Mars. Using the closest orbital approach the Enterprise had to be moving at FTL speeds, yet it was at impulse.

Assuming of course that at some point they didn't go to warp some time during the process.

[Uraniun235]

From me, don't use the TM, it isn't canon.

I really don't see why we have to be anal about canonicity when we aren't engaging in vs. debates.