Thoughts on the opening scene of ST III

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-05-21 09:55pm

In Star Trek 3 you have the Klingon played by Christopher Lloyd kills the Klingon spy and the ship carring her. It implies that they are lovers and yet he doesn't even try to save her.

Why couldn't he have beamed her off the ship and then destroyed it? For what purpose did she have to die just because she had looked at the tapes. If brought aboard, that problem would be delt with(her knowing about Genesis)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-21 09:59pm

It's really simple:

Because she had seen the tapes, she had to be killed.

That's pretty much it.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-05-21 10:05pm

Spanky beat me to it

**after transmitting the Genesis data

Valkyris: You may find it useful

Kruge: Then...you have seen it?

Valkyris: I have , my lord

Kruge: Unfortunate......

Valkyris: Understood...

followed by a firing pass to destroy the frieghter

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-05-21 10:07pm

Valkris also knew she had to die for seeing the tapes, and she accepted her fate willingly. She even admitted she had seen the tapes, rather than trying to conceal that fact from Kruge (which could have saved her life).

Why she had to die is simply a plot hole I won't even try to find an explanation for...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-05-21 10:12pm

Ma Deuce wrote:Valkris also knew she had to die for seeing the tapes, and she accepted her fate willingly. She even admitted she had seen the tapes, rather than trying to conceal that fact from Kruge (which could have saved her life).

Why she had to die is simply a plot hole I won't even try to find an explanation for...

Apperently she's Kruges lover and a spy, yet still low enough on the totem pole to not have the security clearence to see the objective of the mission.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-21 10:16pm

Basically Kurge felt that he had to severe all loose threads.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-05-21 10:25pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Basically Kurge felt that he had to severe all loose threads.

Bringing her on board his ship would have done that as well. I see no reason that she HAD to die.

She saw the tapes, SO WHAT! Having her back as a Klingon would have done the job as well.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-21 10:28pm

Because to Kurge, just bringing her aboard wouldn't have been enough. Obviously he decided that the data concerning the Genesis Device on the tape was important enough that anyone else seeing it had to be killed.

The only reason I could see to bring her aboard would be to personally shoot her after blowing up her ship.

Plotwise, it's to make Kurge appear more ruthless and driven towards his goal.

EDIT: 15000th post, yo.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-05-22 01:05am

She had to die for her HONOR. Duh. She's Klingon.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-22 01:12am

Isolder74 wrote:Bringing her on board his ship would have done that as well. I see no reason that she HAD to die.

She saw the tapes, SO WHAT! Having her back as a Klingon would have done the job as well.

It was said plenty of times in ST: the klingons don't value life the same way humans and the Federation do. As such, when someone makes a minor transgression: Valkris peeking at the tapes, the gunner hitting a survey ship and SURPRISE SURPRISE destroying it, they get executed.

Is that a valid reason? Fuck no. But you're forgetting a couple things:

1) These Klingons were the bony head ones, and also, the Captain was a bit of a prick.

2) In the case of Valkris, she may have had explicit orders not to look at the tape, and she at least understood the consequences of her action at the end, if not when she had a choice.

3) The gunner was ordered to disable and not kill, because the Captain wanted prisoners. Bizarre, given in TWOK Kirk assured Saavik and us that Klingons didn't take prisoners. Obviously this was an atypical tactic that Kruge wanted to exploit, and was robbed of it by poor aim.

4) Um, the Klingons were the villains of the story. In case you didn't get it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-22 01:12am

kojikun wrote:She had to die for her HONOR. Duh. She's Klingon.

She was a Romulan actually, IIRC.

For one, Valkris isn't much of a Klingon name...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-05-22 01:15am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:She was a Romulan actually, IIRC.

For one, Valkris isn't much of a Klingon name...

Look, shut up, you. :p

Maybe she was seduced by the Klingon culture.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-22 01:18am

No, she was Klingon Spanky. She's got the same stupid bonehead, and she DOESN'T have the pointed ears. Further, the captain of the transport she was on made the comment "I thought you people were reliable."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-22 01:34am

Well then I guess I didn't remember correctly...

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-22 10:52am

Wait, let's discuss the real start of ST III-

why does the Enterprise have damage on her she never sustained during WOK?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-05-22 11:06am

That always irritated me. Sure that damage looked cool, but where did it come from? She get into a scuffle on the way home?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-05-22 04:20pm

err. i don't suppose anyone can provide pics or clarify exactly what this damage was? i remember Enterprise being damaged in the beginning of ST 3, but i don't remember precisely what the damage was. Wasn't really paying enough attention to notice a difference.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-05-22 05:01pm

Maybe they thought it looked better for the ship to have damage on both sides, as opposed to just one side.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-24 02:52pm

it must have been one of those 'good days to die' that the Klingons are always rambling on about. Which begs the question Do they schedule those ahead of time on like a calendar? Or is it like the weather report.

Klingon Newscaster 1: "....And that was how the noble warriors destoyed the tribble menace. Now lets go to Kragg for the forcast! Kragg?

Klingon Nescaster 2: "Gah! Today is a good day to die! Tomorrow, not so much, but Wednesday the outlook is for glorious deaths to all warriors who die! K'plah!"

Klingon Newscaster 1: "HA! There will be much glorious film at eleven!"

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-26 06:47am

ROFLMAO ....

So, no answer on the ST III new damage conundrum ... alas alack.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-26 06:53am

Vympel wrote:ROFLMAO ....

So, no answer on the ST III new damage conundrum ... alas alack.

No answer, only speculation. Could it be possible that the Enterprise's warp maneuver to escape the genesis detonation damaged her in someway? Spock might have done a juryrigged repair which might have... done something.

No, no answer at all.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-26 09:53am

Re. the Klingon woman: if the information was so sensitive that she had to die for seeing it, why did Kruge then view it on the goddamned main viewscreen of his ship? Does every single member of his crew have top-level security clearance too? That scene was written to show how cold-blooded Kruge is, and the writers didn't bother to worry about whether it made sense.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-26 10:06am

Darth Wong wrote:Re. the Klingon woman: if the information was so sensitive that she had to die for seeing it, why did Kruge then view it on the goddamned main viewscreen of his ship? Does every single member of his crew have top-level security clearance too? That scene was written to show how cold-blooded Kruge is, and the writers didn't bother to worry about whether it made sense.

As I recall, he only allowed his XO (Torg?) and presumably his third (Maltz, the dumbass who beamed Kirk up) to actually view the tape in its entirety- the flashing up on the screen didn't seem to convey any real meaning. I noticed also that he made sure to whisper to his XO of his plan, so maybe his crew wasn't entirely politically reliable.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-05-26 10:36am

Stofsk wrote:3) The gunner was ordered to disable and not kill, because the Captain wanted prisoners. Bizarre, given in TWOK Kirk assured Saavik and us that Klingons didn't take prisoners. Obviously this was an atypical tactic that Kruge wanted to exploit, and was robbed of it by poor aim.

Or Kirk was simply parroting the standard Starfleet line. The notion of an enemy giving no quarter at all is useful bit of propoganda to motive one's forces. It's not difficult to assume the Federation used the trick with regards to the Klingons.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-26 05:30pm

Well, the most likely scenario is he wanted prisoners to interrogate about Genesis. He wanted the weapon for the Klingon empire, so it wouldn't be good to kill those who potentially possessed it.