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Deep Space Nine, with all of the Dominion war defense upgrades

vs.

Scimitar, without the thaleron deathbeam.

Scenario 1: DS9 has warning of the impending attack, and prepares for battle accordingly.

Scenario 2: DS9 is caught with their pants down.

Who wins?

If DS9 has warning, then it should win. Wjen the Scimitar fires, it is going to give away its general position at least, and DS9 has sufficient firepower to blanket the area until they localise them, then pound them into scrap metal.

How far down are their pants? If they are caught completely without shields, then it would be very simple to do surgical strikes against Ops and various weapon concentrations. With Ops gone, it may not even be possible for the station to raise its shields, and the station will probably be picked to pieces.

Uraniun235 wrote:Scenario 1: DS9 has warning of the impending attack, and prepares for battle accordingly.

The scimitar dies a horrible death. With preparation we can assume DS9 will pull out all the stops, such as mining the area (not guaranteed to hit but likely would counter evasive maneuvres on the part of the Scimitar), having the Defiant as a torpedotank and secondary target, perhaps even including Bajora clerics praying to the God Sisko for high deliverance. Plus having shields that are designed to go against fleets is a bonus.

Scenario 2: DS9 is caught with their pants down.

Unprepared, DS9 get's destroyed. It has no maneuvrability, and if it is surprised then the Scimitar can target shields first, then everything else later. If the target is destruction a precedent has been set - a Romulan warbird decloaked and attacked the station, causing it's destruction (season 3, can't remember the episode title, had O'Brian time-hopping) This was before the major upgrades yes - but the point is DS9 was surprised and had no preparation, once the attack commences DS9's only hope is raising shields. If it can't do that it's a goner.

If the target is capture then DS9 wins. Kira singlehandedly kicks the arses out of those Reman wankers. Ok, Kira and the rest of the security force beats the Reman wankers. Meanwhile whoever is at Ops targets the Scimitar and blows it up when it decloaks, lowers it's shields for beam-in, and sits there like an idiot.

DS9 wins easily, if they know the Scimitar is coming. Even the E-E was able to do some damage to the Scimitar in a prolonged engagement, and DS9 has engaged entire fleets of starships in the past. As powerful as the Scimitar is, it is not as powerful as the wing of Klingon vessels that attacked the station in WotW.

If unprepared, the station would be annihilated. Surgical strikes would allow the Scimitar to wipe out the station, which must continuously keep its shields down, since it's a station that allows civilian ships to dock on a regular basis.

DS9 wins this one easily. Two Valdors and a Scimatar was able to drop the Scimatars shields to 70%. In comparision DS9 can take on hundred of starships without losing shields.

Scimatar might win if it uses its cloak properly. By hitting DS9 from long range while cloaked it might win.

DS9 has more then enough weapons and shields to destroy the Scimitar. Even if the Scimitar tried attacking just one vector, DS9 can still overwhelm its shields and pound it to scrap.

evilcat4000 wrote:DS9 wins this one easily. Two Valdors and a Scimatar was able to drop the Scimatars shields to 70%. In comparision DS9 can take on hundred of starships without losing shields.

Let's not be too silly here. No such capability has been demonstrated.

In addition to the raw firepower advantage, I also think it is reasonable to assume that DS9's shields would block the Scimitar's Thaleron radiation toy unless we have some evidence to the contrary. What the fuck use are shields if they can't block radiation?

Howedar wrote:

evilcat4000 wrote:DS9 wins this one easily. Two Valdors and a Scimatar was able to drop the Scimatars shields to 70%. In comparision DS9 can take on hundred of starships without losing shields.

Let's not be too silly here. No such capability has been demonstrated.

DS9 did hold out against the Dominion fleet for about 40 mins of combined attack by the Dominion forces in series five, i dont know how many ships were there, not hundreds, certainly, but over 50 I think - one of them was a Dominion battlecruiser if I recall correctly.

The_Lumberjack wrote:

Howedar wrote:

evilcat4000 wrote:DS9 wins this one easily. Two Valdors and a Scimatar was able to drop the Scimatars shields to 70%. In comparision DS9 can take on hundred of starships without losing shields.

Let's not be too silly here. No such capability has been demonstrated.

DS9 did hold out against the Dominion fleet for about 40 mins of combined attack by the Dominion forces in series five, i dont know how many ships were there, not hundreds, certainly, but over 50 I think - one of them was a Dominion battlecruiser if I recall correctly.

There at a minimum was a hundered, weyoun was pissed "over 50 ships were lost, you call that a victory?"

Darth Wong wrote:In addition to the raw firepower advantage, I also think it is reasonable to assume that DS9's shields would block the Scimitar's Thaleron radiation toy unless we have some evidence to the contrary. What the fuck use are shields if they can't block radiation?

It bears mentioning that Trek uses "radiation" to refer to things that act nothing like real radiation.

Darth Wong wrote:In addition to the raw firepower advantage, I also think it is reasonable to assume that DS9's shields would block the Scimitar's Thaleron radiation toy unless we have some evidence to the contrary. What the fuck use are shields if they can't block radiation?

Perhaps thalaron radiotion is unique in nature like Dominion poloron beams. It may have properties that allow to bypass shields that stops other kinds of radiation.

evilcat4000 wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:In addition to the raw firepower advantage, I also think it is reasonable to assume that DS9's shields would block the Scimitar's Thaleron radiation toy unless we have some evidence to the contrary. What the fuck use are shields if they can't block radiation?

Perhaps thalaron radiotion is unique in nature like Dominion poloron beams. It may have properties that allow to bypass shields that stops other kinds of radiation.

You're right. That's not the only form of Trek radiation that bypassed shields either. Chronotons did it on both Voyager and DS9. And the thaleron weapon's raw power output may even be greater than that of the ship's conventional energy weapons, if the whole ship's power system revolves around making the stuff. But the OP says they don't have the thaleron weapon. If they did, I'd probably expect the weapon (without evidence that the shields can't block it as effectively as they block other energy) to make it through in bits, depending on the condition of DS9's shields and the damage done to them by the ship's conventional weapons. I do think some forms of radiation can get through DS9's shields, but without evidence from Nemesis that this form actually can, I'll assume it's at least badly hindered by them.

I noticed that on the sensor readout they pointed out the thalaron radiation--there was the normal EM band, radio through gamma, then a second labelled band below it, and a third, where thalaron was singled out. It would seem Starfleet has several species of "radiation" of which EM is the most commonly occuring group. I invite anyone with the capability to check this out to do so, as I can't