Nemesis: Alters Federation Strategic Evaluation?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-04-06 04:37am

I am referring to the strategic evaluation by the Federation on SD.net here: Federation Strategic Analysis.

I'm aware that Mike is busy, so bear in mind I'm not complaining. I was just curious as to how Nemesis changes at least the information on the Romulans.

For one thing, in the wake of Nemesis the Romulans would seem to be much less stable, having just suffered a military coup by a slave army.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-04-06 11:00am

I would've launched a massive invasion against the Romulans, if I were the Federation. Bring them under our foot and rename the Federation "Terran Empire".

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-04-06 11:21am

Having just suffered a major coup followed by the death of the new Romulan "Emperor" without a successor, it stands to reason that the Romulan government is currently in a state of disarray. Encroachment from the Klingons into Romulan territory wouldn't be surprising at this time. There are, however, some Romulan admirals who still seem to have resources, and they might be forming a military government.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-04-06 04:55pm

Didn´t the Federation-Klingon-Alliance break apart in this last double-episode of TNG? If i remember correct the Klin had annected the RomulanEmpire in this future.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-04-06 05:11pm

Interesting.

Perhaps Q was using elements from the 'real' future to give Pichard hints.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2004-04-06 06:30pm

Ted C wrote:Having just suffered a major coup followed by the death of the new Romulan "Emperor" without a successor, it stands to reason that the Romulan government is currently in a state of disarray. Encroachment from the Klingons into Romulan territory wouldn't be surprising at this time. There are, however, some Romulan admirals who still seem to have resources, and they might be forming a military government.

Yes.

The only thing to which I'd take exception is WRT the likelihood of Klingon aggression. According to Bashir and Sloan in "Inter Enim Arma Silent Leges," the Klingons would emerge from the Dominion War as the weakest allied power, one which needed "a decade to rebuild [its] fleet."

Simply, even with the Romulan government in chaos, the Klingons might not have the strength to assert themselves.

Additionally, Chan. Martok would no doubt realize invading Romulan territory could strain relations with the UFP. That's something he wouldn't want to do for a number of reasons; e.g., his friendship with a number of Starfleet personnel and more importantly, the fact that an earnest Klingon- UFP alliance correlates to a faster reconstruction of the Imperial war machine.

We could never rule out very small-scale border raids by rogue houses, common piracy and such, but I think that'd be the extent of Klingon incursions.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-04-06 07:42pm

Solauren wrote:Interesting.

Perhaps Q was using elements from the 'real' future to give Pichard hints.

I agree that it could work.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-04-07 05:12am

FTeik wrote:Didn´t the Federation-Klingon-Alliance break apart in this last double-episode of TNG? If i remember correct the Klin had annected the RomulanEmpire in this future.

No I think.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-04-07 06:29am

FTeik wrote:Didn´t the Federation-Klingon-Alliance break apart in this last double-episode of TNG? If i remember correct the Klin had annected the RomulanEmpire in this future.

only in Qs fake future.
In "real" the Fed/Klingo alliance lasted till the Klingons invaded Cardassia (before their alliance with the domion) I beleive thats was in "Way of the Warrior"

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-04-09 01:27pm

We only know, that the alliance was restored when the Dominion invaded the Alpha-Quadrant and that it held till "What you leave behind".

We don´t know, what would have happened after that, especially since it were twenty years till the events of this last TNG-episode.

Aside from that nobody tells us, if Sloan and Bashir´s estimations were correct (the doctor was once also convinced, that the Dominion would win the war and we all know, how that ended) and, if memory serves well, the Klingons were no power-factor for ten years, not twenty or thirty.

Also in Voyager´s "Endgame" the relations between Federation and Klingons weren´t too well. So there is a lot, that indicates, that Q´s future was more than faked.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2004-04-09 03:48pm

IIRC, in "Endgame" the Klingons who fought Admiral Janeway were working for the Klingon scientist that she cheated. I don't remember the overall alliance being mentioned.

Of course TWOTW showed just how fickle the Klingons can be, so the alliance could easily break up if Martok lost power and the next leader was as nutty as Gowron.

Sidious · Post by **Sidious** » 2004-04-09 03:54pm

so the alliance could easily break up if Martok lost power and the next leader was as nutty as Gowron.

You mean CHANGLING Gowron heh. Of course its pretty sad that the entire empire followed him around without question.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-04-09 03:56pm

Sidious wrote:
so the alliance could easily break up if Martok lost power and the next leader was as nutty as Gowron.
You mean CHANGLING Gowron heh. Of course its pretty sad that the entire empire followed him around without question.

Gowron was never a changling, DS9 thoguht he was changling but it was actually Martok.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-04-09 03:57pm

Sidious wrote:
so the alliance could easily break up if Martok lost power and the next leader was as nutty as Gowron.
You mean CHANGLING Gowron heh. Of course its pretty sad that the entire empire followed him around without question.

Gowron wasn't a Founder, Martok was.

Sidious · Post by **Sidious** » 2004-04-09 04:11pm

Fuck, your right. Brain fart.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-10 07:15pm

Ted C wrote:Having just suffered a major coup followed by the death of the new Romulan "Emperor" without a successor, it stands to reason that the Romulan government is currently in a state of disarray. Encroachment from the Klingons into Romulan territory wouldn't be surprising at this time. There are, however, some Romulan admirals who still seem to have resources, and they might be forming a military government.

They already had and military government; what exactly do you think Shinzon was? From what we know during TNG/DS9, the Romulan government was a sort of oligarchy made up of the aristocratic families, but in no way a military government.

When Shinzon killed the Romulan senate, he effectively removed the ruling class and established an autocracy with his control over the military ensuring his position. That is the definition of a military government, and I would think with Shinzon dead, the aristocrats on Romulus would want to go right back to running things, unless the military were to try to go for a power grab.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-04-11 01:06am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Sidious wrote:
so the alliance could easily break up if Martok lost power and the next leader was as nutty as Gowron.
You mean CHANGLING Gowron heh. Of course its pretty sad that the entire empire followed him around without question.
Gowron was never a changling, DS9 thoguht he was changling but it was actually Martok.

Also was not Gowron killed by Worf before this happened ?

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2004-04-11 04:44am

evilcat4000 wrote:Also was not Gowron killed by Worf before this happened ?

No. Worf only killed Gowron at the end of the series.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-04-11 09:24pm

I'd just hope the Romulans stick to their crappy Norexan class warbirds and don't start mass-producing the Scimitar. Assuming they've got the specs.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-04-12 12:52pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:I'd just hope the Romulans stick to their crappy Norexan class warbirds and don't start mass-producing the Scimitar. Assuming they've got the specs.

How about neither, both ships sucked. The D'deridex needs some escort ships, though. It's too big to operate alone.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-04-12 01:39pm

The Kernel wrote:When Shinzon killed the Romulan senate, he effectively removed the ruling class and established an autocracy with his control over the military ensuring his position. That is the definition of a military government, and I would think with Shinzon dead, the aristocrats on Romulus would want to go right back to running things, unless the military were to try to go for a power grab.

Is that not essentially what I suggested? Prior to Shinzon's coup, the Empire was at least nominally run by a Senate, although the means by which the Senators gained their positions was never shown. Shinzon eliminated the Senate and filled the void with himself and his Reman followers. With Shinzon's death, I doubt the other Reman's will have an easy time holding onto power. Their most likely rivals are the Romulan admiralty, since they still had sufficient power over their subordinates to send ships to oppose Shinzon's attack on Earth. One way or the other, this would place the Empire under the control of a military dictatorship of unknown stability in the wake of Shinzon's death.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-12 01:59pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:I'd just hope the Romulans stick to their crappy Norexan class warbirds and don't start mass-producing the Scimitar. Assuming they've got the specs.

i disagree. the Scimitar (minus the stupid radiation gun with wings) is one hell of a ship. The thing fought off the flagship of the federation and two front line warships of the romulan fleet at the same time. That makes it vastly superior to anything in the arsenal of the Alpha Quadrant powers.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-04-12 05:41pm

Norexan class?

Edit: Yes and the same flagship fought the Scimitar to a standstill, then defeated it. The E-E's phasers were dry as a bone and I believe she even ran out of torpedos.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-04-12 11:14pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:I'd just hope the Romulans stick to their crappy Norexan class warbirds and don't start mass-producing the Scimitar. Assuming they've got the specs.
How about neither, both ships sucked. The D'deridex needs some escort ships, though. It's too big to operate alone.

The Scimitar may suck relative to a Star Destroyer or something, but it shredded two Romulan warbirds (that must at least be on par with the D'Deridex in some ways and superior in others), and completely disabled the Federation's best warship (while holding out because they didn't want to destroy it). The cost? A dropped cloak and shields down to 70%.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-04-12 11:16pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:I'd just hope the Romulans stick to their crappy Norexan class warbirds and don't start mass-producing the Scimitar. Assuming they've got the specs.
i disagree. the Scimitar (minus the stupid radiation gun with wings) is one hell of a ship. The thing fought off the flagship of the federation and two front line warships of the romulan fleet at the same time. That makes it vastly superior to anything in the arsenal of the Alpha Quadrant powers.

I think you misunderstand, lol. I was saying the Scimitar is a hell of a ship. That's why I hope the Romulans don't mass produce it. And the planetkiller is a pretty decent weapon in terms of effect, regardless of how silly it is conceptually.