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Generations fix.

Posted: 2004-03-04 12:43pm
by Knife
So I was thinking about Star Trek Generations last night, don't ask why cuz I really don't know. Anyway, I remember watching it and being annoyed at various things, Kirk dying on a stupid foot bridge to be specific.

I don't know if this has been done (at least this particular approach) but I started to try to figure out a better story arc for this than what happened and found that I think Generation could have been a pretty good flick.

Here's my idea.......





In the opening sequence, we ditch the Enterprise B and most of what happens but retain the plot device of the Ribbon and the two freighters.

The show opens showing the Starfleet Museum Orbital Annex, a cyclinder like station with various 'docks' extended out of it around the central portion and the entire station is covered in windows. On the docks, an old Consitution class (TOS), various others ships, and on a new dock, the Enterprise-A.

The Enterprise was retired some years ago but today is being reactivated as a museum piece and an interactive, solar system traveling exibit. On board for the ceremony, Kirk, Bones, Spock, and Checkov.

The Federation media is covering the event and camera's are every where. The four members of the famous crew of the famous ship are ask various questions from the media and Kirk is some what humbble infront of the camera's. Some throw away dialouge about Mr. Scott retiring and perhaps a line or two about Sulu and his success at being the Captain of the Excelcior.

The time comes and Admiral Kirk takes command of the ship full of retired Starfleet personel who have voluteered to work at the Enterprise museum and various media and minor political figures. With much fan fare the Enterprise pulls away from the dock and juts across the system.

Ok, now the ribbon snags the two or three E'lurian (sp?) ships and a distress signal goes out. Kirk, being the only ship in the quadrant :D orders the ship to warp to go save the people.

When they arrive, pretty much the same thing happens that happened in the show. One of the freighters explodes as Kirk tries various trek-no-babble solutions. Hell, keep the dialouge in there about torpedo's but slightly modified.

Kirk eventually moves the ship into the ribbon to transport out the crew of the other two ships and watches in horror as the ships explode. Now the Enterprise is stuck in the gravitaional waves of the ribbon. After some bantering around and ultimate failure to save the ship from the gravity tearing it apart, Kirk orders his first officer, Spock and his medical officer, Bones, to load up all the shuttles with the survivors and media and VIP's from the ceremony earlier and to escape.

Using a quick subspace envelope from the warp manifolds ( :P ) the Enterprise is able to secure a safe route out of the ribbon for the shuttles and the survivors held within. But the poor Enterprise is doomed.

From the cabin of one of the shuttles, Doctor M'Coy watches his old friends death as the Enterprise disapears into the ribbon.


Shoot forward 78 years and the Enterprise D goes through its little detective story with Soran and such. Eventually the Enterprise finds its way to the Viridian system. Lursa and B'Etor are in charge of a small Klingon squadron instead of only one BoP. Perhaps three or four of the larger BoP's.

Ditch the Laforge sub plot. The Klingons attack the Enterprise D and the combined might of the four warships eventually cripple the ship. The Enterprise D gives as good as she gets though and all but Lusa's and B'Etor's ship are destroyed. But the evil sisters get their revenge when their final torpedo sends the Enterprise's warp core into meltdown and the sauser section seperates to escape.

THe sauser section crashes like originally and Lursa's ship stays in orbit. Picard and Soran have their little scuffle ending with Soran destroying the star and he and Picard disappear into the Nexus as the sauser section of the Enterprise and Lursa's BoP is destroyed along with the planet.

Picard does his little mid life crisis in the Nexus and then snaps out of it witht he help of Gidion's echo. She also tells Picard that the Enterprise was destroyed over Viridian. Picard convinces Kirk to help him in the Nexus along with some of the promiment crew members that was with Kirk when the Enterprise entered the Nexus.

Press reset button;

Riker is fighting the four BoP but things are looking bad. Shields are draining and only one of the four enemy ships is damaged. Torpedo strikes keep hitting the Enterpirse and Riker plans to do something ticky (read dumb). In the background of the battle, you can see the ribbon getting really close. Riker is tring despertly to stay in postion so that he can shoot down Soran's torpedo if he fires it and because of this he can't out manuver the Klingon ships pounding him.

Out of the ribbon, the Enterprise A roars. Though she has only two torpedos for show and even those are unarmed, she fires the dumb bombs at one of the BoP's and opens up with her phasers. Kirk, in the command chair with Checkov on the helm, engage the Klingons with the usual Kirk flair.

The distraction gives Riker the time he needs to concentrate fire on one of the BoP's and it goes up in a ball of fire. The E-A takes out the crippled ship and both Enterprise's harry the remaining two.

Mean while, back at the ranch......er surface. Picard again reasons with Soran and a scuffle ensues again. Soran again pummles Picard and manages to fire off his torpedo at the sun.

The Enterprise D moves to destroy the torpedo and Kirk uses the Enterprise A to protect the aft end of the E-D and in the process takes heavy damage.

But this is Kirk, with phasers blasting away, he takes out one of the remaining BoP's and when the Enterprise is massively damaged, he sets a intercept course on Lursa's and B'Etor's ship that is hounding the E-D.

Riker is giving everything he's got to chase down the torpedo and watches helplessly as Kirk gives his life to protect the Enterprise D. THe E-A rams Lursa's ship destroying the Enterprise A and damn near the Bird of Prey.

Riker catches the torpedo and shoots it down with a torpedo of his own. Riker assumes that the BoP is a wreak and head back to pick up Captain Picard before he deals with the Klingons. The Enterprise then returns to Viridian IV to pick up a slightly beaten up Picard and a dumb founded Soran as both watch the ribbon fly by the planet but not close enough for Soran to jump in.

Lursa and B'Etor aren't quite dead yet and manage to get off one last torpedo as Picard is beamed up. The final damage is enough to send the warp core into melt down but Riker gets off one last salvo and the Duros sisters are no more.

The saucer section does its crash and Starfleet comes to save the day by resuing the crew. The movie can end basicly the same as it did with Picard and Riker picking through the wreakage of the bridge and readyroom.

The end......credits...............

Posted: 2004-03-04 01:17pm
by Tsyroc
I don't know if it exactly works but I got choked up during the Kirk / Ent-A going out fighting part. :)

Posted: 2004-03-04 01:25pm
by El Moose Monstero
You'd lose any connection between Kirk and the TNG crew by reducing the character interplay to a viewscreen conversation, however, and I think that bringing the Ent-A into it would be stretching credibility, the Ent-B gave us a look at a new ship and a new crew, even if it was in a timeline we'll never see.

I dont really have too much of a problem with generations, the end battle was a bit crap, kirk's death wasnt up to much, but it passed the flag on.

But that's just me.

Posted: 2004-03-04 01:31pm
by Montcalm
Tsyroc wrote:I don't know if it exactly works but I got choked up during the Kirk / Ent-A going out fighting part. :)
Same here that would have been a better death scene than the shitty things they`ve done

Posted: 2004-03-04 02:42pm
by Knife
The_Lumberjack wrote:You'd lose any connection between Kirk and the TNG crew by reducing the character interplay to a viewscreen conversation,
No, you'd keep Picards interactions with Kirk in the Nexus since those are the only real meaningful ones anyway. Most of the dialouge on Viridian between Kirk and Picard are quick one liners mostly about beating the shit out of Soran or they're too old for this shit.

Hell, I wouldn't even have any onscreen communication from E-D to E-A. Perhaps some......

Riker- What is he doing?

Data- It seems the Enterprise A is manuvering to provide protection for us.

Or

Kirk- Helm, get us between the Enterprise and the Klingon flagship. We've got to give them enough time to catch that missile.
however, and I think that bringing the Ent-A into it would be stretching credibility, the Ent-B gave us a look at a new ship and a new crew, even if it was in a timeline we'll never see.
Nah, one of the major points of the movie is to pass the tourch from the TOS crew to the TNG crew. Who has any emotional attachment to the Enterprise B?
I dont really have too much of a problem with generations, the end battle was a bit crap, kirk's death wasnt up to much, but it passed the flag on.

But that's just me.
Twas what I was trying to fix. :D

Posted: 2004-03-04 05:01pm
by Gil Hamilton
With Generations, I just wonder how that jives with TNG Relics. In Relics, Scotty was retreived from the transporter and when he hears that the Enterprise had found him, he asks if Kirk had sent the old girl to find him. They say it's the Enterprise-D and it's been a long time. But given the dates given in Relics and Generations, Scotty was there when Kirk fall into the Nexus a full year before he went to the Dyson Sphere. It's impossible to rationalize that he simply forgot that his best friend and captain was killed in an accident that he watched happen and even saw the giant gash in the side of the ship where Kirk was. His memory wasn't bad, considering he was telling old ship stories and even remember a hotel that he stayed in once that the rooms on the ship reminded him of. Removing Scotty from the movie and having him disappear in the Dyson Sphere before then would be a good change for the movie.

Posted: 2004-03-04 05:20pm
by Montcalm
Gil Hamilton wrote:With Generations, I just wonder how that jives with TNG Relics. In Relics, Scotty was retreived from the transporter and when he hears that the Enterprise had found him, he asks if Kirk had sent the old girl to find him. They say it's the Enterprise-D and it's been a long time. But given the dates given in Relics and Generations, Scotty was there when Kirk fall into the Nexus a full year before he went to the Dyson Sphere. It's impossible to rationalize that he simply forgot that his best friend and captain was killed in an accident that he watched happen and even saw the giant gash in the side of the ship where Kirk was. His memory wasn't bad, considering he was telling old ship stories and even remember a hotel that he stayed in once that the rooms on the ship reminded him of. Removing Scotty from the movie and having him disappear in the Dyson Sphere before then would be a good change for the movie.
Thats a huge Star Trek fuckups,the producers never take time to connect everything correctly,i think they have a short term memory.forgeting most of it,but not how much more money they`ll make :roll:

Posted: 2004-03-04 05:23pm
by El Moose Monstero
Knife wrote:
The_Lumberjack wrote:You'd lose any connection between Kirk and the TNG crew by reducing the character interplay to a viewscreen conversation,
No, you'd keep Picards interactions with Kirk in the Nexus since those are the only real meaningful ones anyway. Most of the dialouge on Viridian between Kirk and Picard are quick one liners mostly about beating the shit out of Soran or they're too old for this shit.
Ah, my fault, I missed the bit about them still sounding out Kirk. Sorry. :) I know noone gives a damn about the Enterprise B, but it shows Kirk letting go of command, where he realises that there are other captains to do his job now, and that all things end. By keeping the Enterprise A in it, Kirk never really lets go, I'm not sure whether that would have done the film more good or less good, but the Picard/Kirk stuff was something very personal in that noone else knew that it happened, Picard could have never mentioned it, if we bring in the Ent-A, then it might remove some of that more personal stuff by sharing the same experience with the whole crew of the Ent-D.

Posted: 2004-03-04 08:11pm
by paladin
Hey, Knife. Good idea for fixing Generations.

Posted: 2004-03-04 08:23pm
by Solauren
Fix for 'relics' comment by Scott

time in the transporter beam cuppled with a head wound we can't see buggered his memory for a bit
I mean, 70+ years in the transporter has to have some side-effects

Posted: 2004-03-04 08:39pm
by Gil Hamilton
Solauren wrote:Fix for 'relics' comment by Scott

time in the transporter beam cuppled with a head wound we can't see buggered his memory for a bit
I mean, 70+ years in the transporter has to have some side-effects
I addressed that. Are you saying that he remembered some rinky dink hotel on Altair that the ships quarters reminded him of, but he didn't remember the violent death of his best friend and captain of several decades for which he was present?

Posted: 2004-03-04 10:48pm
by Gandalf
Maybe he didn't believe he was dead?

Posted: 2004-03-04 11:04pm
by Gil Hamilton
Gandalf wrote:Maybe he didn't believe he was dead?
How could he not believe he was dead? He was there and, in fact, was the first person on the scene to find the big old hole in the side of the ship where Kirk was when the Nexus hit the ship.

Posted: 2004-03-05 12:11am
by Solauren
Gil Hamilton wrote:
Solauren wrote:Fix for 'relics' comment by Scott

time in the transporter beam cuppled with a head wound we can't see buggered his memory for a bit
I mean, 70+ years in the transporter has to have some side-effects
I addressed that. Are you saying that he remembered some rinky dink hotel on Altair that the ships quarters reminded him of, but he didn't remember the violent death of his best friend and captain of several decades for which he was present?
I'm talking short term problems. He did go to sick bay before remembering all that.

Kinda like stubbing your toe. It hurts for a BIT.

My idea is simple: Mental stubbing from the transporter, wears off after a bit

Posted: 2004-03-05 07:39am
by Galvatron
Nice job.

Now fix Star Trek V. I've always thought that movie just screamed for a Romulan warship to make an appearance. :)

Posted: 2004-03-05 09:31am
by Gil Hamilton
Solauren wrote:I'm talking short term problems. He did go to sick bay before remembering all that.

Kinda like stubbing your toe. It hurts for a BIT.

My idea is simple: Mental stubbing from the transporter, wears off after a bit
THe problem with this is that he didn't seem to forget anything else. Plus, Kirk's death would have been an incredibly strong memory. It's inconceivable that he'd just up and forget that Kirk had died the previous year, especially considering the dramatic manner in which he died. It's possibly to get that brain damaged to the point that major memories are lost, but that has a serious effect on a persons behavior and Scotty was completely normal acting.

Posted: 2004-03-05 12:20pm
by Knife
Galvatron wrote:Nice job.

Now fix Star Trek V. I've always thought that movie just screamed for a Romulan warship to make an appearance. :)

:shock: I'm a doctor, Jim, not a miricle worker!

Posted: 2004-03-05 12:43pm
by Stofsk
Knife wrote:
Galvatron wrote:Nice job.
Now fix Star Trek V. I've always thought that movie just screamed for a Romulan warship to make an appearance. :)
:shock: I'm a doctor, Jim, not a miricle worker!
You think that's bad? Fix Nemesis. :twisted:

Posted: 2004-03-05 12:57pm
by Knife
Stofsk wrote:
Knife wrote:
Galvatron wrote:Nice job.
Now fix Star Trek V. I've always thought that movie just screamed for a Romulan warship to make an appearance. :)
:shock: I'm a doctor, Jim, not a miricle worker!
You think that's bad? Fix Nemesis. :twisted:

:mrgreen: *picks up script and places script into shredder*

All fixed now.


Star Trek V used to be the standard of suckiness but would B&B let that standard be. Hell, no. They labored hard to create the abomination that is Nemesis.

Posted: 2004-03-05 01:05pm
by Gil Hamilton
Stofsk wrote:You think that's bad? Fix Nemesis. :twisted:
Simple. Remove Shinzon and the Remans, insert Sela, shake vigorously.

Posted: 2004-03-05 01:15pm
by Stofsk
Gil Hamilton wrote:
Stofsk wrote:You think that's bad? Fix Nemesis. :twisted:
Simple. Remove Shinzon and the Remans, insert Sela, shake vigorously.
Remove Sela, add an actor/ess who can act, stir in Spock's unification movement (not Spock himself, maybe he was martyred), add fleet battles between Romulans and Federation (with the former picking on the Klingons, who's infrastructure is shot to shit thanks to the Dominion War), add emotion to the characters, some semblance of a plot, no cheesy Superweapon of Doom and no Deus Ex Machina copout paired with a reset button, and bob's your uncle. :D

Posted: 2004-03-05 01:16pm
by Tsyroc
Gil Hamilton wrote:
Stofsk wrote:You think that's bad? Fix Nemesis. :twisted:
Simple. Remove Shinzon and the Remans, insert Sela, shake vigorously.
Don't forget to ditch the ludicrous B4 bullshit. Been there done that. :?

Posted: 2004-03-05 02:05pm
by Major Diarrhia
Gil Hamilton wrote:With Generations, I just wonder how that jives with TNG Relics. In Relics, Scotty was retreived from the transporter and when he hears that the Enterprise had found him, he asks if Kirk had sent the old girl to find him.
It's easly rationalized. He was joking, the transporters screwed with his mind, or knowing Kirk, he held out a slight bit of hope that it was Kirk, seeing as how there was no actual proof of Kirk's death.

There were only three things I didn't really like in Generations. The lighting, the battle, Kirks death. I would have used only slightly subdued lighting on the E-D. Would have put a Vor'cha in with the Bird of Prey and have had Riker actulay fight. I would have had Kirk litteraly sacrifice his life in some direct way instead of falling to his death. Maybe he could have held onto the rocket and punched the controles out before reaching orbit, then burn up on reentry as he falls back down to the planet. It would have been unrealistic but would have fit perfectly with Kirk I think. :D [/i]

For Nemesis; no superweapon, unification, Romulans, Vulcans, a huge ass fleet battle.

Posted: 2004-03-05 09:33pm
by Gil Hamilton
Major Diarrhia wrote:It's easly rationalized. He was joking, the transporters screwed with his mind, or knowing Kirk, he held out a slight bit of hope that it was Kirk, seeing as how there was no actual proof of Kirk's death.
Um, no.

**He didn't seem like he was joking and as far as he knew (in the episode) he hadn't been in the transporter buffer very long.

**The transporter didn't effect any of his other memory, including easily forgettable things that are dwarfed by the violent death of his best friend and captain of several decades for which he was present for.

**No proof? There was an enormous hole in the side of the ship where the giant ship destroying vortex his and no body. Scotty is alot of things, but stupid isn't one of them.

Posted: 2004-03-05 09:37pm
by Gil Hamilton
Stofsk wrote:Remove Sela, add an actor/ess who can act, stir in Spock's unification movement (not Spock himself, maybe he was martyred), add fleet battles between Romulans and Federation (with the former picking on the Klingons, who's infrastructure is shot to shit thanks to the Dominion War), add emotion to the characters, some semblance of a plot, no cheesy Superweapon of Doom and no Deus Ex Machina copout paired with a reset button, and bob's your uncle. :D
No Sela is the obvious best choice, even if the actress isn't terrific. It not only allow them to tie up threads left open in Unification, but it fits with the Nemesis theme. After all, Sela has serious beef with both Picard and Data, the principle characters in the movie, and was foiled by one the other or both of them three times previously. I agree with the rest.