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Lets suppose that over the course of Earth/UFP colonization they discover a number of pre-warp civilizations.

Whoops...Prime Directive applies, keep on moving, folks.

Thus, some planets are swallowed up in UFP territory over decades and centuries.

One day, such a civilization discovers warp drive, and a First Contact Team welcomes the newcomer to the Interstellar Neighborhood.

Question is...would this planetary nation-state remain sovereignity out to some arbitrary distance from its star (the Oort cloud? The Heliopause?), or would the Federation automatically assume jurisdiction...after all, the system IS within UFP territory .

That's a really tricky question.

But Since ST IX, we know, that the Federation sees every planet within it's borders, which is not a member world or colony, simply as it's possesion.

I would imagine that pre-warp planets inside the Federation are considered under the Federation's protection, and are guarded by Starfleet vessels to prevent contamination. During a war, they'd probably have to assign ships to defend those systems in order to prevent them from being used as bases for the enemy, and to prevent contamination from the enemy. These planets are not contacted, but Starfleet might send an observer to check on them now and then.

This touches on one of my personal peeves about the Prime Directive. Not everyone follows the Prime Directive. As a result, to make it work, the Federation would have to gobble up as many pre-warp worlds as possible, so they can defend them from being contaminated by the Klingons, Romulans, etc. Basically, it's a noble idea in theory, but to make it a reality, the Federation would be guaranteed near-constant war to defend pre-warp worlds from more aggressive, expansionist neighbors.

CDiehl wrote:This touches on one of my personal peeves about the Prime Directive. Not everyone follows the Prime Directive. As a result, to make it work, the Federation would have to gobble up as many pre-warp worlds as possible, so they can defend them from being contaminated by the Klingons, Romulans, etc. Basically, it's a noble idea in theory, but to make it a reality, the Federation would be guaranteed near-constant war to defend pre-warp worlds from more aggressive, expansionist neighbors.

Sounds just like the Asgard in SG1 to me, but this is PST, so I'll shut my mouth now and stop stating the obvious.

As for the original subject, I think that the Federation would simply engage in diplomatic negotiations with the species in question. The species may have something in their home system which the Federation want, and they might trade this for territory, or the Federation might just give them territory as breathing room. A newly emerged species in Federation territory would need breathing room anyway, because a paranoid government or public could paint the Federation as a usurping intergalactic empire and the Federation would not want this.

My guess would be that the Federation would give them some amount of breathing room, and enter into diplomatic negotiations with them for travel and trade rights within Federation territory. They would probably also be considered for Federation membership, although IIRC there are certain qualifications that must be met before a world is accepted into the Federation; if they didn't yet meet them, I would imagine the Federation would entice them into working towards meeting those qualifications.

During a war, they'd probably have to assign ships to defend those systems in order to prevent them from being used as bases for the enemy, and to prevent contamination from the enemy.

Or, they beam down and start trying to help them prepare to defend themselves against the enemy. (TOS "Errand of Mercy") Prime Directive may go out the door in time of war.

Not everyone follows the Prime Directive. As a result, to make it work, the Federation would have to gobble up as many pre-warp worlds as possible, so they can defend them from being contaminated by the Klingons, Romulans, etc. Basically, it's a noble idea in theory, but to make it a reality, the Federation would be guaranteed near-constant war to defend pre-warp worlds from more aggressive, expansionist neighbors.

It's not an all-or-nothing deal; the Federation most likely realizes that there will be worlds which cannot be protected and which will be contaminated by other powers. They probably try to minimize the damage that the Federation does, and shrug their shoulders at the plight of worlds within their enemy's sphere of influence.

So it really is the Prime Guideline, isn't it?

What happens if one of these planets in say the interior of Federation space, wants to join someone else? Say one of the peoples that the Federation isn't on good terms with.

Seems like the policy of just adding planets that don't even know you exist can lead to all sorts of trouble when they do find out about you.

neoolong wrote:What happens if one of these planets in say the interior of Federation space, wants to join someone else? Say one of the peoples that the Federation isn't on good terms with.

Unsavoury empire X gets a shiny new outpost colony? Either that, or the Federation would have to conceed territory, as with the Cardassian/Maquis incident.

If the system in question is deep within Federation territory, then I guess that could be a big problem. I'm guessing that the system would be considered part of X's empire, but travel would be heavily restricted/regulated.

CDiehl wrote:So it really is the Prime Guideline, isn't it?

More or less. Is that a problem?

CDiehl wrote:So it really is the Prime Guideline, isn't it?

That's exactly it. Otherwise Kirk would have never got away with "breaking" it so many time. And Picard would have never concieved of doing like wise either, since he is such a man of the rules. Same for Janeway as Kirk, although she should have been locked away for numerous other things.