my thoughts on Enteprise

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 01:49am

As I said in another thread, I'm a fan of Enterprise. Season three has really shaped up and proven that the series has alot of potential. Yes, the first two seasons were pretty bad, but no surprise there, considering ever Trek series sucks in it's first two seasons. While the series has it's continuity problems, so did the previous series. We blame B&B, but we have to remember that Bragga doesn't write every episode and that these errors are on the part of the writers themselves. Anyways, the series did set up a reason why the Klingons disliked humans and show how damn annoying the Duras family can be. A few things though:

The ship: To be honest, I don't quite get the Akiraprise nickname. The NX and Akira only share two things in common, the cartaman hull and both have something connected between the nacelle struts. Of course, this thing (no idea what its name is) has different functions for each ship. For the Akira, it's a weapons pod, while it's some sort of gravitational thing for the NX. I am aware that the two ships look alot alike from a top view, but that's all. From every other view, the ships look nothing alike. The Akira's nacelles are downswept and the NX's are upswept. The deflector is on the front of the NX's saucer, while the Akira has it on the bottom. It's also a size matter. I believe the NX is only like 150 meters, while the Akira is almost twice the size.

An interesting thing to note is that in an interview with a website (I'll get the link in a bit), the guy who designed the NX explain that B&B brought him a picture of a WWII American fighter, I believe it's name is a P-33 or something. The designer had gone through dozens of ship designs and he liked the way the fighter looked, so he borrowed the design.

I know that people gripe that the NX's existence was never mentioned in the other four series and I don't know either. I can understand them not using the Daedalus, they're ugly ships and smaller than an NX. To be honest, I prefer the NX. Besides, weren't they built during the Earth-Romulan War?

Finally, it's my belief that Enterprise is set in an alternate timeline, probably caused by the time traveling fiasco in FC.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2004-02-21 02:10am

The fighter in question was the P-38.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-21 02:14am

I'm really sick of the argument "The first 2 seasons of a Trek show were crap, so let's forgive Ent for being so."

TOS seasons 1 and 2 were excellent, compared with the shit that was season 3 (where it was justifiably axed). I must be the only person in the world who actually thought DS9 seasons 1 and 2 were good compared with the later season.

In any case, I really hope that it's gotten better. I might still refuse to watch it - should the 3rd season be shown by channel 9 at all (because they essentially despise science fiction/fantasy and presents them at 11:00 pm or later - Witchblade is shown 1:00am, what the fuck is up with that? But don't worry, we get plenty of lifestyle shows and shitty american sit-coms during primetime).

As for Enterprise's "Akira" look, I frankly couldn't give a shit about that criticism. How many ships does starfleet have? How many designs, varients, subclasses etc get manufactured? Why shouldn't they look similar to later designs?

Personally I liked the "look" of the show, but I hate the characters in it, and the majority of the arc-related plot shit. Bare in mind I have not seen the third season, but of the first two seasons nothing has really leapt up out of the screen, grabbed me by my shirt and pulled me in. I despise the timetravel shit, the Suluban, the cro-magnon Klingons, no Romulans, and the minimalistic fleet (how long will it take them to build the NX02? Three years? After having an entire planet as industrial base?).

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 02:35am

Actually, according to the "The Expanse", the NX-02 would be completed in around 14 to 16 months.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-21 02:43am

Aya wrote:Actually, according to the "The Expanse", the NX-02 would be completed in around 14 to 16 months.

Yeah, but when did they start building the damn thing? Were they just starting to build it in "The Expanse" or did it look half-completed?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 02:51am

Stofsk wrote:
Aya wrote:Actually, according to the "The Expanse", the NX-02 would be completed in around 14 to 16 months.
Yeah, but when did they start building the damn thing? Were they just starting to build it in "The Expanse" or did it look half-completed?

It was almost completed when they showed it. Just missing a few pieces of hull plating. Admiral Ross also stated that the ship would have all the new toys the Enterprise was refitted with.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-21 03:24am

Tell me Aya, what is good about Enterprise's third season? What's changed? Is Archer still a fuckhead (the last episode I saw of the show was one where he chewed Trip out for "cultural interference," in spite of the fact that Starfleet doesn't operate at this time with a Prime Directive)?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 03:53am

Well, they're traveling through an area of space called The Expanse. It's a place where weird shit can happen, mostly because of these huge artificial spheres that cause anomalies and distortions. These aren't the standard Trek anomalies. These are the kind that'll turn a person inside out, while they're still alive. It's a pretty fucked up place. But they had to go in to stop a Death Starish super weapon the Xindi are building.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-21 04:18am

Yes, but what has changed? What makes it good now, in your eyes? Elements like characterisation - are they the same characters, are they different, have they changed for the better, or the worse etc?

Drach · Post by **Drach** » 2004-02-21 05:18am

Archer grew a spine for one. I especially liked it when he locked a Xindi or some such race in an air lock and started decompressing it untill he got the information he wanted.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-02-21 11:05am

The Akiraprise design isn't that bad, considering there is an FASA design, a Locknar class frigate, that looked like the Akira long before the Akira was built.

Heck, fans that include the FASA stuff have the ship evolution for

NX class, Loknar class, Akira class

Kinda like Consitution, Enterprise, Excelsior

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-02-21 11:34am

Until they fix the continuity bullshit (which Voyager really damaged beyond repair), I won't watch this garbage. UPN, in all its brilliance, now airs this turd at the same time as the WB's "Smallville" so the ratings are only getting worse. I hope this show gets canned. Flush this fucking turd, please!

One thing that really irks me about "Enterprise" is how they treat space like, in Roddenberry's own words, 'their backyard.' I fucking hate how they travel from Earth to Kronos in no time flat. I hate how the goddam Ferengi show up; again, there is no distance in space. And, once again, we got their Voyager-esque "photonic" character bullshit. Trek is dead. Fuck it.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-02-21 11:46am

Personally, whenever I've had the opporuntinity to watch Enterprise, I didn't find anything really objectionable. The episode "Regeneration" I really enjoyed...for obvious reasons.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 01:07pm

I can't comment on the third season since I stopped watching a couple episodes into the second, but Enterprise was B&B's pathetic attempt to rewrite TOS in their image.

They rehashed just about every concievable plot from TNG and DS9 they could possibly fit in. Very little in the series was original even down to the characters and the ships.

They characters were boring because they were so sterotypical. Christ, you could figure out what they were going to do at the end of the show by the first ten minutes. The ships were lazy and in the case of the Enterprise, a complete rip off.

Its not so much its resemblence to the Akira, its the fact that they weren't even interested in removing the surface details of the Akira when the bent the warp naccells up and called it the NX1.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-02-21 02:16pm

I'd like to know who in the art department designed the Akira, myself. I get the feeling someone at Paramount really liked the P-38 and figured that they'd make a background ship that sorta looked like one. Then when they had a shot at designing a whole new ship that didn't have to follow the primary hull/secondary hull/nacelles on pylons rule, they figured why not model the NX after the P-38? Remember that for most casual fans have only seen Akiras for a few seconds at a time in FC and, IIRC, some DS9 episodes, so they're not going to point at the NX and say "Hey, they ripped off the Akira!" Hell, I'm a moderately knowledgeable Trek fan and I didn't recognize it when I first saw the NX on the cover of TV guide. So they weren't worried that they'd modeled two ships on the P-38, because one was a background prop that most people never got a good look at.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 02:41pm

RedImperator wrote:I'd like to know who in the art department designed the Akira, myself. I get the feeling someone at Paramount really liked the P-38 and figured that they'd make a background ship that sorta looked like one. Then when they had a shot at designing a whole new ship that didn't have to follow the primary hull/secondary hull/nacelles on pylons rule, they figured why not model the NX after the P-38? Remember that for most casual fans have only seen Akiras for a few seconds at a time in FC and, IIRC, some DS9 episodes, so they're not going to point at the NX and say "Hey, they ripped off the Akira!" Hell, I'm a moderately knowledgeable Trek fan and I didn't recognize it when I first saw the NX on the cover of TV guide. So they weren't worried that they'd modeled two ships on the P-38, because one was a background prop that most people never got a good look at.

Doug Drexler

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-21 04:54pm

Except that the Akira-class had already established itself as a fan favourite long before Enterprise even aired, so they just went with virtually the exact same shape and made a few minor alterations.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 05:48pm

Alex Jaeger designed the Akira.

Akira.

NX.

Yeah, such a rip off.

Also note that the NX is 225 meters, whereas the Akira is 440 meters. That's a 215 meter difference. Hell, look at the cartamen hulls. Completely different placement.

http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/fed ... oknar.html

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-21 06:03pm

I suggest that you actually study the images that you posted.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/misc/ ... omment.htm

Turn off the apologist mode for a minute, Aya. It's a blatant copy of the design.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/misc/ ... aprise.jpg

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 06:06pm

Nice try, how about...

This picture shows the same hull details that they were too lazy to either adjust or change. Note the sauser section is the same. The bow cut out is the same. The square-is superstructure on the vetral hull is either the same or extremely simular. The inset windows on the port and starboard sides are the exact same on both. The flared out engine nozels (though the NX doesn't use them as such) are in the same place and are identical.

The P38 super chargers on the booms are the same. The structure in the aft, ventral side of the sauser is the same. And as before mentioned, the weapons pod/gravity thingy is of remarkable simularity between the two.

Yes, someone took their time to adapt (read rip off) the Akira to the Enterprise but in the end it is still the Akira with a few modifications.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-21 06:12pm

Why is the Akira's service number mirrored?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 06:15pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Why is the Akira's service number mirrored?

Good point, I'll have to go email Schneider and ask.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-21 06:16pm

It's flipped so they'd be closer to facing the same direction, which makes comparisons easier.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 06:31pm

1. That thing in the middle of the nacelles is some sort of gravitational thing for the NX and a weapons pod for the Akira.

2. The deflector of the NX is on the front, whereas the front of the Akira's saucer appears to be bay doors. Keep in mind that it's speculated that the Akira doubles as a carrier.

3. Are you really nitpicking about the lights and whatever those two things near the back of the saucer you circled are.

No idea about the rest of the stuff. I'm guessing that thing at the back of the NX's saucer might be a light. It is above the shuttle bay, right? Anyways, everyone has their opinions and I'm not going to debate with you, seeing how I have the debating skills of Scooter. >_<

Spanky: I have no idea what an apologist is. Also, how can it be a blatant ripoff when the ships look nothing alike. Notice the wording? It says "Similar". Alot of ships have similar things, does that make them rip offs of each other? I mean, is the Miranda, Constellation and some other ships Constitution ripoffs because they use the same nacelles and saucers? Also notice the part where it says "Although they are not the same size, technology or function."

Again, not going to debate.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-02-21 06:57pm

Aya wrote:1. That thing in the middle of the nacelles is some sort of gravitational thing for the NX and a weapons pod for the Akira.

Who gives a flying fuck? Address the criticism that they are visually identicle. The Trek writers can assign any function they want to any part of the ship, and if the only differences they can claim are scale and a function they deliberately created to draw a distinguishing feature between the two, then it's a rip-off.

2. The deflector of the NX is on the front, whereas the front of the Akira's saucer appears to be bay doors. Keep in mind that it's speculated that the Akira doubles as a carrier.

Again, who gives a rat's ass? They're visually VERY similar, and that's all that the guy who designed the NX-01 was going for, since he just designed the visual aspects of the ship.

3. Are you really nitpicking about the lights and whatever those two things near the back of the saucer you circled are.

Are you really ignoring the massive similarities between the two ships? Stop being an apologist. While I don't think that the copy-cat design is the worst aspect of the show, it's blatantly obvious that they ripped off the other design in creating the NX-01.

Spanky: I have no idea what an apologist is. Also, how can it be a blatant ripoff when the ships look nothing alike. Notice the wording? It says "Similar".

Similar placement, similar shape. If you flip the image of the Akira or the Enterprise, look at how similar their catamaran hulls are! If all it takes is a difference in scale and a flipped hull design to convince you that the two ships look nothing alike, then you've obviously had no experience in how true plagiarists misrepresent others' ideas as their own.

Alot of ships have similar things, does that make them rip offs of each other? I mean, is the Miranda, Constellation and some other ships Constitution ripoffs because they use the same nacelles and saucers?

Show me another pair of ships in which THAT MUCH can be compared easily. BTW, the Miranda, Constellation, and Constitution look NOTHING alike. They don't use the same saucers, AND they don't use the same engine layout, or engines in the case of the Constellation/Miranda anc Constitution.

Also notice the part where it says "Although they are not the same size, technology or function."

Who cares? The scale was simply reassigned, the functions were simply re-assigned, and the design was inverted to make the NX-01. Those are TRIVIAL changes. To claim that the Miranda, Constellation, and Constitution are rip-offs if the NX-01 is a rip-off of the Akira is bunk because those designs don't have NEARLY the similarities as the other set does.

Again, not going to debate.

When you make a claim you MUST back it up or concede.