Post-Atomic Horror

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-02-14 10:20am

2061: Earth has first contact with Vulcans. (ST:FC, but hints put first contact in the 2061-65 timeframe as early as TOS)
2061-2150: United Earth movement gains steam, admitting more and more nations until Australia joins up in 2150. (ENT)
2073: Post-Atomic Horror: "United Earth nonsense had been abolished." Kangaroo courts, badly-dressed extras, er, peasants abound, etc. (ST:TNG "Encounter at Farpoint")

What gives? Did the Vulcans just let Earth slide into chaos for 20 years or so before they said, "OK, you guys are fucking up. Gimme."?

And how was it that in the midst of the Post-Atomic Horror that Earth managed to construct and launch multiple interstellar missions, including Friendship One and the S.S. Valiant?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-02-14 10:55am

I was under the impression the Post-Atomic Horror was limited to mainly the eastern parts of the world while the Western world recovered and began a space program.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-02-14 11:12am

Picard was acting like the Post-Atomic Horror was a universal experience that had lasted for decades, rather than, "Well, yes, this happened in part of the world but then the rest helped them out of it." His reaction seemed more like, "This is what we pulled ourselves out of by our bootstraps."

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-02-14 11:16am

Though it does lead to an amusing mental image:

PICARD: That happened three centuries ago, in an isolated corner of the world, Q. For an omniscient being, you sure are a dumbfuck.
Q: Oh shit. Let me check my notes... dammit...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-14 11:17am

Iceberg wrote:Picard was acting like the Post-Atomic Horror was a universal experience that had lasted for decades, rather than, "Well, yes, this happened in part of the world but then the rest helped them out of it." His reaction seemed more like, "This is what we pulled ourselves out of by our bootstraps."

Both are applicable, I think. If the entire world suffered from a post-atomic horror, who would build the starships? The war had to be localised in some hotspot which nevertheless affected the entire world, but not enough to keep men like Cochrane from designing the warp engine.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-02-14 01:56pm

Did'nt Riker say in FC that most of the worlds cities were destroyed? All of this can be chalked up to a never ending series of continuity errors.

In FC we see people who are wearing clothes like they have to scrounge them yet, they have the skills, knowledge, and resources to launch a FTL ship. Our economy is in far better shape than their and look how long it takes to launch the Shuttle.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-14 02:50pm

Add this to the fact that in TOS "Space Seed", the Eugenics War/Third World War (they use the terms interchangably) happened at the end of the 20th century and ended with significant destruction and disruption of records from that period.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-14 02:56pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:In FC we see people who are wearing clothes like they have to scrounge them yet, they have the skills, knowledge, and resources to launch a FTL ship. Our economy is in far better shape than their and look how long it takes to launch the Shuttle.

This is something that's wrong with alot of science fiction, where you've got a scrappy set of survivors building or repairing something like an interstellar starship of the stuff they find lying around. But as Vernor Vinge points out in "Deepness in the Sky" building something as complex as an interstellar ship requires significant infrastructure and strata of industry.

But hey, if FC says they did it, we've got to accept it. After all, this is StarTrek, where the MacGyver effect rules supreme for the good guys.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-14 04:47pm

Stofsk wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Picard was acting like the Post-Atomic Horror was a universal experience that had lasted for decades, rather than, "Well, yes, this happened in part of the world but then the rest helped them out of it." His reaction seemed more like, "This is what we pulled ourselves out of by our bootstraps."
Both are applicable, I think. If the entire world suffered from a post-atomic horror, who would build the starships? The war had to be localised in some hotspot which nevertheless affected the entire world, but not enough to keep men like Cochrane from designing the warp engine.

Well, any significant nuclear exchange is going to have major ripple effects. If plenty of cities go up in mushroom clouds that's going to disrupt all manner of economic activity, a massive refugee problem, and a major shift in government. Even if significant portions of the world weren't directly attacked the results probably would make for a shitty experience for them none the less.

And it's also possible that Picard simply overstated the horrors of it and how much had to be overcome. He's certainly blustered and bullshitted about the great Federation enough to make that plausible.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2004-02-14 05:19pm

Let's face it, Europe was going to be the one who suffered the most from an atomic war between the Americans and Soviets. Oriental nations may have gained a great deal of sway over Europe at that time, at least culturally.

And let's remember, Picard was a European (the best Frenchman and worse Englishman in both) so it would be pretty traumatic in his history.