The Borg Vs a fleet of Doom day machines.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2004-02-14 06:21am

What would happen if one day a fleet of dozen Doom day machines from TOS appear on the border of Borg space? Would the Borg be able to assimulate them or will the Doomday machines eat their way across the Borg space...

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2004-02-14 09:59am

Borg Wins. Either they assimilate them or destroy them.

Assimilating is easy, all they have to do is chuck a few torpedoes in its 'mouth' and the Machine is screwed. Something like a 90 MT explosion crippled it in the TOS ep?

Once neutralized, they asssimilate it/them.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-02-14 10:09am

My, the unfounded assumptions fly here so...

TurboPhaser wrote:Assimilating is easy, all they have to do is chuck a few torpedoes in its 'mouth' and the Machine is screwed. Something like a 90 MT explosion crippled it in the TOS ep?

This machine must have a programmed defensive sphere. Any energy source coming within that sphere is immediately subject to attack.

—Spock, "The Doomsday Machine"

Once neutralized, they asssimilate it/them.

And a wrecked machine has what assimilation value exactly?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-02-14 11:51am

In Vendetta a single Doomsday machine was doing pretty well against multiple Borg cubes....before FC and Voyager got ahold of them.

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2004-02-14 11:54am

Wasn't the outer shell made of neutronium?

Mabe that's assimilate-able.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-02-14 11:58am

The Borg's problem fighting a doomsday Machine is that unless they have assimilated Kirk they will not know the secret of defeat the machines. It was a lucky susicide dive that reveiled the weakness in the first place.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-14 12:18pm

It's possible a Borg cube will just fly into it, and coincidentally cause the destruction. I mean, if none of the other weapons work, and the Drones can't do anything to it, then a last resort would be to kamikaze. As such, the Borg will probably win, but given their tactical incompetence demonstrated in the past it would probably take them more ships, as they're too stupid to try anything truly audacious (such as thinking about it - where's the PK's ONE weak spot? Is it the hull, covered in pure neutronium and unassailable by our weapons? Or maybe that Big Wide Hole in the front, that isn't armoured at all, and has the glowing thing which looks like the power reactor? Gotta think now...).

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-02-14 02:07pm

Yeah, that Big Hole that shoots the Big Honkin' Death Ray.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-02-14 05:06pm

The Poor Borg.

Actually, here's a question, who says the Doomsday machine orginally had shields that failed over time?

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2004-02-14 07:08pm

As I remember , didnot the original DDM also jammed all subspaces channels. What would this do to the Borg link to the collective?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-02-14 07:36pm

Was there a reason the Doomsday Machine didn't fire on either the shuttlecraft or the Constellation as they bore down on it?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-14 09:00pm

RedImperator wrote:Was there a reason the Doomsday Machine didn't fire on either the shuttlecraft or the Constellation as they bore down on it?

PK: "Hmm... free food!"

That's all I've got. Maybe it's computer's (or whatever) threat assessment showed no risk? The shuttle couldn't harm it, and it would have been a tasty snack for a minute. The Connie was clearly damaged, barely functional and her weapons didn't have the strength to punch through the armour anyway - maybe it simply computed no threat? A further possibility is that, like the Death Star engineers, the PK builders or controllers (something had to be controlling it, even if it was only a sentient computer) weren't aware of that particular design flaw, or for some reason couldn't correct it.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-02-14 09:05pm

Stofsk wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Was there a reason the Doomsday Machine didn't fire on either the shuttlecraft or the Constellation as they bore down on it?
PK: "Hmm... free food!"

That's all I've got. Maybe it's computer's (or whatever) threat assessment showed no risk? The shuttle couldn't harm it, and it would have been a tasty snack for a minute. The Connie was clearly damaged, barely functional and her weapons didn't have the strength to punch through the armour anyway - maybe it simply computed no threat? A further possibility is that, like the Death Star engineers, the PK builders or controllers (something had to be controlling it, even if it was only a sentient computer) weren't aware of that particular design flaw, or for some reason couldn't correct it.

More than likely didn't know about it.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-02-15 12:09am

omegaLancer wrote:As I remember , didnot the original DDM also jammed all subspaces channels. What would this do to the Borg link to the collective?

Hmm thats a good point; if I remember the episode correctly, Enterprise was encountering heavy subspace interferance a long way off, even as she was picking through the rubble of the destroyed planets -- way before sensor or visual contact with the intruder. So all the jamming probably wouldnt do much good for a Borg vessel, thats my guess

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-02-15 12:35am

I think I remember reading a Star Trek novel that explained the Doomsday Device as being the precursor to what would someday become the Borg. Forget how it happens though...

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2004-02-15 12:54am

Anyone have a measurement of the size of the hole at the front of the machine? Ramming a cube down the front may not be effective if you can't get enough of it into the vital sections.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-02-15 01:04am

Thag wrote:Anyone have a measurement of the size of the hole at the front of the machine? Ramming a cube down the front may not be effective if you can't get enough of it into the vital sections.

Looks to be about twice the size of a connie in diameter

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-02-15 03:55am

Thag wrote:Anyone have a measurement of the size of the hole at the front of the machine? Ramming a cube down the front may not be effective if you can't get enough of it into the vital sections.

The Borg can use a sphere then. Being smaller the Sphere might able to go though the opening.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-02-15 04:02am

Isolder74 wrote:
Thag wrote:Anyone have a measurement of the size of the hole at the front of the machine? Ramming a cube down the front may not be effective if you can't get enough of it into the vital sections.
Looks to be about twice the size of a connie in diameter

The visuals for that whole episode were off... there's one shot in which it looks almost like you couldn't fit more than a few shuttlecraft in the hole, let alone a starship.

Part of me really wonders what the planet killer would have really looked like if they had had access to modern VFX technology... it's a pity they couldn't make the visuals truly equivalent to Decker's description of it.

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2004-02-15 06:02am

Patrick Degan wrote:My, the unfounded assumptions fly here so...

No need for rudeness, FYI I never actually saw that episode. Through no fault of my own, the local video store is severley lacking in TOS videos.

This machine must have a programmed defensive sphere. Any energy source coming within that sphere is immediately subject to attack.

—Spock, "The Doomsday Machine"

Yes, thankyou. I stand corrected. Would this also apply to Borg Disruptor beams? As they are a sustained energy stream, could the DDM stop it?
Even if it couldnt, I dunno how many or how long they'd need to fire for if aimed for the mouth.

Once neutralized, they asssimilate it/them.
And a wrecked machine has what assimilation value exactly?

Possibly some, I dont know how badly the DDM was damaged.
But I cant imagine the Borg going 'Yay, we neutralized a fleet of massive neutronium armoured Planet Eaters!...........Lets go home.'

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-15 06:18am

Tsyroc wrote:In Vendetta a single Doomsday machine was doing pretty well against multiple Borg cubes....before FC and Voyager got ahold of them.

As the Borg would say:

"Canon status of Star Trek books estimated at 0.00001%"

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-02-15 07:56am

TurboPhaser wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:My, the unfounded assumptions fly here so...
No need for rudeness, FYI I never actually saw that episode. Through no fault of my own, the local video store is severley lacking in TOS videos.

My apologies then.

This machine must have a programmed defensive sphere. Any energy source coming within that sphere is immediately subject to attack.

—Spock, "The Doomsday Machine"
Yes, thank you. I stand corrected. Would this also apply to Borg Disruptor beams? As they are a sustained energy stream, could the DDM stop it?
Even if it couldnt, I dunno how many or how long they'd need to fire for if aimed for the mouth.

The Borg cutting laser is a continual beam, as is the tractor. Their disruptors however are not continuous in application. Frankly, I do not see their cutting laser being any more effective against the outer surface than phasers were, and the draining tractor field application isn't likely to have effect against an object which does not generate energy-based defence shields (as it relies on its armour for its protection.

Furthermore, a bunch of small beams or torpedoes will not add up to a big bomb sufficent to neutralise the berserker.

Once neutralized, they asssimilate it/them.
And a wrecked machine has what assimilation value exactly?
Possibly some, I dont know how badly the DDM was damaged.
But I can't imagine the Borg going 'Yay, we neutralized a fleet of massive neutronium armoured Planet Eaters!...........Lets go home.'

When the Constellation was detonated within the maw of the planet killer, the blast quite evidently wrecked the machine's weaponry and control mechanisms. There would be little of salvage value left, and simply because the Borg might capture the dead hulk of one with its neutronium outer shell does not mean that they could duplicate whatever process was involved in shaping an elongated, asteroidal-form with a stable neutronium outer envelope. The Borg have had about zero luck coping with any technology which is radically alien to their experience and scientific level.

While I won't argue that the Borg could not ultimately successfully defend themselves against even a dozen of these machines, they would not be able to salvage and assimilate the technology which created them. They would be doing well simply to destroy or render them inert.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-02-15 08:12am

The Borg actualy have both beam and pulse distuptors.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-02-15 08:43am

Burak Gazan wrote:
omegaLancer wrote:As I remember , didnot the original DDM also jammed all subspaces channels. What would this do to the Borg link to the collective?
Hmm thats a good point; if I remember the episode correctly, Enterprise was encountering heavy subspace interferance a long way off, even as she was picking through the rubble of the destroyed planets -- way before sensor or visual contact with the intruder. So all the jamming probably wouldnt do much good for a Borg vessel, thats my guess

No, in I Borg subspace jamming cut a drone from the collective...

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-02-15 10:04am

evilcat4000 wrote:The Borg actualy have both beam and pulse distuptors.

I've seen them use beam disruptors, where and when did they use pulse?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Borg Vs a fleet of Doom day machines.

The Borg Vs a fleet of Doom day machines.

What about Sub space jamming

Re: What about Sub space jamming

Re: What about Sub space jamming