ST:First Contact question...

Bill Door · Post by **Bill Door** » 2004-01-28 08:27pm

...about Borg personal sheilding.

In ST:FC, Picard goes into the holodeck and uses a holographic Thomson SMG to kill 2 borg drones.

Why would Picard go and do that?
I know that the phasers were rendered in-effective by Borg adaption, but why would Picard deliberatly choose a simulation with a KE weapon?

Is it:
1)An underlying weakness against KE weapons?
If so, then why doesn't Starfleet use firearms?

2)A limit to the number of types of attack that can be defended against.
Then why doesn't Starfleet issue firearms, phasers and disruptors?

3)Energy Saving, if its not needed why use it?
This leaves the drones vunerable to differing attacks. Also, melee attacks are KE and can be blocked with KE shielding.

4)Some other reason I haven't thought up?

Your thoughts?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-28 08:31pm

Well, I don't think the Borg ever adapted to bat'leths or being punched. I would guess a weakness to KE attacks. Best to ask Robert Walper, though.

As for why Starfleet doesn't issue firearms, my brother and I have talked that one over many times and have come to the conclusion that Starfleet's stupid.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-01-28 08:35pm

Well, SF did develop a rifle that fired bullets, but it never made it beyond a prototype.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-01-28 08:38pm

Aya wrote:Well, SF did develop a rifle that fired bullets, but it never made it beyond a prototype.

It was dropped for a phaser rifle, that from what I could decipher from it's name, cycled it's frequencies.

A neat thing to think about. A hologram is supposed to be photons and forcefields, shouldn't the forcefield be stopped by a shield?

Bill Door · Post by **Bill Door** » 2004-01-28 08:40pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, I don't think the Borg ever adapted to bat'leths or being punched. I would guess a weakness to KE attacks. Best to ask Robert Walper, though.

Why else would I post it here? So I can brag about a particularly twisted thought process?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-28 08:44pm

Bill Door wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Well, I don't think the Borg ever adapted to bat'leths or being punched. I would guess a weakness to KE attacks. Best to ask Robert Walper, though.
Why else would I post it here? So I can brag about a particularly twisted thought process?

This is SD.net. Twisted thought processes are the order of the day.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-01-28 09:19pm

Gandalf wrote:
Aya wrote:Well, SF did develop a rifle that fired bullets, but it never made it beyond a prototype.
It was dropped for a phaser rifle, that from what I could decipher from it's name, cycled it's frequencies.

A neat thing to think about. A hologram is supposed to be photons and forcefields, shouldn't the forcefield be stopped by a shield?

Holodecks also utilize replicators. Not everything is just light and force fields. If I remember right.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2004-01-28 11:24pm

The federation KE fireing weapons "brutal and inhumain" even against the borg.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-28 11:30pm

Admiral Drason wrote:The federation KE fireing weapons "brutal and inhumain" even against the borg.

Huh? Since when did the Federation describe KE weapons as brutal and inhumane?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-29 12:55am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:The federation KE fireing weapons "brutal and inhumain" even against the borg.
Huh? Since when did the Federation describe KE weapons as brutal and inhumane?

The Critcis and fanboys did, not the Federation. Starfleet had developed KE weapons, AKA the TR-116 rifle, but never mass-produced it.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-29 12:56am

neoolong wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Aya wrote:Well, SF did develop a rifle that fired bullets, but it never made it beyond a prototype.
It was dropped for a phaser rifle, that from what I could decipher from it's name, cycled it's frequencies.

A neat thing to think about. A hologram is supposed to be photons and forcefields, shouldn't the forcefield be stopped by a shield?
Holodecks also utilize replicators. Not everything is just light and force fields. If I remember right.

They probably replicate food (since we see real people eat and drink food served there) and definitely water (Wesley Crusher left a holodeck and stayed covered in snow), but I see no reason why they would replicate bullets. It's possible the Borg just hadn't adapted to the forcefields because they'd never faced holographic bullets.

Picard said, IIRC, "I disabled the safety protocols. Without them, even a holographic bullet can kill."

Looks to me like the bullets were still holograms, but the Borg hadn't adapted to them yet (or can't).

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-01-29 01:28am

Meh, perhaps in this case it was non adaptation.

Or perhaps a non-frequency based energy weapon.

There are still other cases where the holodeck is not used though, so it's not that big a deal.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-29 01:53am

neoolong wrote:Meh, perhaps in this case it was non adaptation.

Or perhaps a non-frequency based energy weapon.

There are still other cases where the holodeck is not used though, so it's not that big a deal.

Fed starship shields have frequencies, so I'd assume their forcefields do too. I'm betting on "first few shots, no adaptation."

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-29 02:00am

Why bother using bullets ? Instead a photon blaster firing bullets filled with minute quantities of anti-matter would be more effective. Of cours detonating blaster bullets will burn or blind anyone nearby with intense heat and gamma radiations so Starfleet will need to issue their soldiers with battlesuits.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-29 02:23am

evilcat4000 wrote:Why bother using bullets ? Instead a photon blaster firing bullets filled with minute quantities of anti-matter would be more effective. Of cours detonating blaster bullets will burn or blind anyone nearby with intense heat and gamma radiations so Starfleet will need to issue their soldiers with battlesuits.

lmao...Starfleet thinking like a military organization. You're silly. Thanks, I needed a laugh.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-29 02:34am

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, I don't think the Borg ever adapted to bat'leths or being punched. I would guess a weakness to KE attacks.

*nods* The Borg do seem typically vulnerable to KE attacks. However, it should be noted the Borg in ST:FC had limited resources on hand, and we have yet to see any Borg tactical drones in combat as far as I know. Borg tactical drones(encountered and classified by the Hansens in STVOY "Dark Frontier") have titanium alloy armor, thus they may be more suited to fight enemies employing weapons with KE properties. There's no direct evidence the Borg have ever employed personal KE shielding, thus I have decided not to not argue the issue, although I don't entirely dismiss the possbility.

Best to ask Robert Walper, though.

As for why Starfleet doesn't issue firearms, my brother and I have talked that one over many times and have come to the conclusion that Starfleet's stupid.

It could be they know more about the situation then we do. It strikes me as extremely dubious that the Borg in all their history have never encountered a race that was capable and utilized KE weapons. Assuming the Borg have encountered said race(s), doesn't seem to have slowed the Borg expansion to any significant degree.

Given the evolution of the Trek galaxy, it's hardly surprising the Borg have specialized in adapting against energy weapons since virtually every species we've seen uses them. You can't fault the Borg for adapting to the universe they exist in.