Seceding from the Federation

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2004-01-21 07:42pm

Suppose a Federation Member World suddenly came to the conclusion that continued membership was harming that world's cultural evolution...Prime Directive violation...and feels that they must withdraw from the UFP and enter a period of solitude.

Would they be permitted to keep their fare share of Starfleet hardware?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-01-21 08:05pm

Enola Straight wrote:Suppose a Federation Member World suddenly came to the conclusion that continued membership was harming that world's cultural evolution...Prime Directive violation...and feels that they must withdraw from the UFP and enter a period of solitude.

Would they be permitted to keep their fare share of Starfleet hardware?

Probably not. Starfleet hardware belongs to the Federation and not to worlds that leave it.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-21 08:57pm

They call them terrorists and send ships to hunt them to intercede in an outside dispute, appearantly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-21 09:05pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:They call them terrorists and send ships to hunt them to intercede in an outside dispute, appearantly.

No, that's only when they're terrorists. The Maquis attack civilian freighters belonging to just about anyone they can get their hands on. That's slightly different from a wish to go into isolation for a while.

By the way, if they thought the Federation was retarding their cultural growth they likely wouldn't want to keep Starfleet tech. That's the whole point of withdrawing that way, to develop on your own.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2004-01-21 10:12pm

The Federation is like a federal government. If Dakota (N or S, take your pick) ceded from the USA, they wouldn't get to keep the missiles.

Unless they were able to pirate the ships (and consequently piss off the Federation enough to 'enter negotiations'), the member world would be on its own.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-22 12:35am

They might able to keep some fixed starfleet equipment like starbases, shipyards and stations. But Starfleet will try to take away the ships.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-22 12:37am

But like I said, if they had the given reason for seceding, they wouldn't want the starbases or ships.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-22 12:50am

Starbases are too big to be moved so whether the seceding members want them or not they have to keep them. And in any case they are very good for defending planets. Developing new hardware takes time so untill they can design their own ships they have to rely on Federation technology to defend themselves.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-01-22 01:55am

Federation hardware by definition belongs to the Federation, not to any member world itself. Of couse this excludes facilities that belong to the planet but the Federation administers. DS9 for example is a Bajoran station that the Bajorans asked the Federation to run for them. And when in season 1 the Bajorans damn near had a civil war and asked the Federation to leave, they did so. Well appart from Sisko and co who fought the good fight.

Though I suppose that if the world Seceded peacefuly and on good terms with the UFP, they could negotiate to purcahse the equipment and such and own it outright for a reasnoable price.

We don't have an example of a world seceding from the UFP so we don't realy have any example to follow.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-01-22 11:47am

Gil Hamilton wrote:They call them terrorists and send ships to hunt them to intercede in an outside dispute, appearantly.

This isn't the Empire. =P

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-22 01:57pm

Aya wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:They call them terrorists and send ships to hunt them to intercede in an outside dispute, appearantly.
This isn't the Empire. =P

He's referring to the Maquis problem.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-01-22 01:57pm

If they are somewhere risky and the secesion is peaceful and they ask politely for it, Starfleet may spare some light ships for defense of that world (a bunch of Intrepids and things like that, but Sovereigns and Galaxies are a non-issue).

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-22 02:00pm

Er, Intrepids are fairly new starships. I would imagine Starfleet would give them some older starships, i.e. Excelsiors.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-01-22 02:15pm

Starfleet may be force to leave its fixed facilities behind, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stripped as much sensitive equipment as possible. The seceding world might find itself with a starbase with no weapons, no computer core, no power plant, and in the case of the big mushroom starbases, no equipment to repair ships.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-01-22 02:19pm

RedImperator wrote:Starfleet may be force to leave its fixed facilities behind, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stripped as much sensitive equipment as possible. The seceding world might find itself with a starbase with no weapons, no computer core, no power plant, and in the case of the big mushroom starbases, no equipment to repair ships.

Starfleet isn't that evil. If the secesion is pacific, they would only remove the very high secret equipment and such.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-22 04:42pm

Evil? Hardly. What's to stop that planet from turning around and selling that sensitive equipment to a hostile force?

If a mushroom starbase were in orbit, I would suspect that Starfleet would try and tow it away, at least into a very high orbit where it's presence would be unobtrusive. Smaller starbases might simply be deconstructed and taken away.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-01-22 05:36pm

Murazor wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Starfleet may be force to leave its fixed facilities behind, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stripped as much sensitive equipment as possible. The seceding world might find itself with a starbase with no weapons, no computer core, no power plant, and in the case of the big mushroom starbases, no equipment to repair ships.
Starfleet isn't that evil. If the secesion is pacific, they would only remove the very high secret equipment and such.

How is it evil to remove valuable and sensitive equipment that's the rightful propery of the Federation from a star system that's leaving the Federation? They want to be independent, they can pay for their defense independently.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-01-22 07:00pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Aya wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:They call them terrorists and send ships to hunt them to intercede in an outside dispute, appearantly.
This isn't the Empire. =P
He's referring to the Maquis problem.

I think Aya was joking.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-22 09:16pm

Planets can and have left the Federation. Tasha Yar was from one such planet that tried leaving and fell into anarchy when it couldn't support itself. It seems most plants don't bother trying because they are quite content.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 01:43am

The Federation seems to be a loose entity of federal states. Planets can take major decisions without consulting the Federation council on Earth. For example in one TNG episode a Federation member abandoned warp drive and banned all warp driven starships from their space without consulting the Federation council.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-01-23 03:03am

What if the Starbase or fixed installation was built by the local inhabitants with local industry? Would that have any bearing on what the seceding world gets in terms of resources? The starbase may be owned by the Federation, but it was built by the people on the world.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-23 03:12am

Murazor wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Starfleet may be force to leave its fixed facilities behind, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stripped as much sensitive equipment as possible. The seceding world might find itself with a starbase with no weapons, no computer core, no power plant, and in the case of the big mushroom starbases, no equipment to repair ships.
Starfleet isn't that evil. If the secesion is pacific, they would only remove the very high secret equipment and such.

It's not evil to take back what's yours in the first place.

And what does the ocean have to do with it?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-01-23 03:13am

Stofsk wrote:What if the Starbase or fixed installation was built by the local inhabitants with local industry? Would that have any bearing on what the seceding world gets in terms of resources? The starbase may be owned by the Federation, but it was built by the people on the world.

It would depend on who paid for it and, more importantly, who paid for the equipment inside? Even if the locals built it, the computers and the weapons (if any) are likely to have been supplied by the Federation, and if it's a Federation facilitiy, they probably paid for it. So they'd still have every right to take any equipment that belonged to them. And for anything the Federation couldn't take with it (like the structure of the fixed installation itself), it could probably bill the locals.

The only exception would be a base that was paid for by the local system and leased to the Federation, and even then the Federation probably had some of its own equipment down there.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 07:24am

at if the Starbase or fixed installation was built by the local inhabitants with local industry? Would that have any bearing on what the seceding world gets in terms of resources? The starbase may be owned by the Federation, but it was built by the people on the world

The Federtiom would probobly remove any Starfleet equipment from the Starbase before handing it over the locals.

Also even if the locals built the Starbase they may not own it if the Starbase built by the order of Starfleet rather than a local initiative.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-23 01:01pm

And, if it were determined that the locals had paid for sensitive technology, I would imagine that Starfleet would pay the locals and then take the technology.

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