I don't think there was only one Phase cloak

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2004-01-17 02:09pm

Okay, here is what I am thinking, on the episode 'Pegasus', the E-D goes to the asteroid to retrieve the ship, and actually the phases cloak, could it be the fact that they didn't want any of the material, technology or research to get into Romulan hands, but Picard messed them up.

or that they discovered that Phase cloak was just too dangerous and stopped researching it?

Thoughts?

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2004-01-17 02:42pm

The development of the phase cloak was illegal in the eyes of the Romulan and Federation Treaty of Algeron, which forbade the development of any cloaking technology, I think it was a byproduct of the Earth-Romulan war?

But noone wants the otherside to even think about getting the ability to cloak and move through things, that's just too damn dangerous.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-17 03:44pm

The episode suggested that certain elements of Starfleet Command were interested in retrieving the phase cloak for future study. "The head of Starfleet Intelligence herself is watching this mission" (by the Admiral was chatting with over subspace), as well as "I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command" by Pressman.

Picard probably realized that if he didn't do something, it would all be covered up again, and the phase cloak project would live on. As such, he decloaked the Enterprise right off the Warbird's bow, so as to ensure that it couldn't be kept under wraps.

I would imagine that the Federation probably invited Romulan observers over to witness the destruction of the phase cloak prototype and the data relating to it.

The Treaty of Algeron was the original peace treaty signed at the end of the Earth-Romulan War, predating TOS.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-01-17 09:00pm

Uraniun235 wrote:The episode suggested that certain elements of Starfleet Command were interested in retrieving the phase cloak for future study. "The head of Starfleet Intelligence herself is watching this mission" (by the Admiral was chatting with over subspace), as well as "I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command" by Pressman.

Picard probably realized that if he didn't do something, it would all be covered up again, and the phase cloak project would live on. As such, he decloaked the Enterprise right off the Warbird's bow, so as to ensure that it couldn't be kept under wraps.

I would imagine that the Federation probably invited Romulan observers over to witness the destruction of the phase cloak prototype and the data relating to it.

The Treaty of Algeron was the original peace treaty signed at the end of the Earth-Romulan War, predating TOS.

Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-17 09:20pm

Aya wrote: Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.

No, I've got that episode on tape. Picard definately says that the Federation can't develop cloaks under the "Treaty of Algeron".

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2004-01-17 10:47pm

DaveJB wrote:
Aya wrote: Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.
No, I've got that episode on tape. Picard definately says that the Federation can't develop cloaks under the "Treaty of Algeron".

But why not use it in gamma quadrant, how would they know?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-18 12:55am

Shrykull wrote:
DaveJB wrote:
Aya wrote: Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.
No, I've got that episode on tape. Picard definately says that the Federation can't develop cloaks under the "Treaty of Algeron".
But why not use it in gamma quadrant, how would they know?

The Gamma Quadrant is Dominion space. And the wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant was not known till DS9.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » 2004-01-18 01:02am

DaveJB wrote:
Aya wrote: Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.
No, I've got that episode on tape. Picard definately says that the Federation can't develop cloaks under the "Treaty of Algeron".

The Treaty of Algeron was signed after the Tomed Incident in 2311 to reaffirm the Neutral Zone and it forbade the Federation from developing any kind of cloaking technology. The original treaty that was signed after the Earth/Romulan war was the Treaty of Cheron.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-18 03:45am

Ahh, shit, I was thinking of that old TOS TM from the 70's, which has the original Earth-Romulan peace treaty named as the Treaty of Algeron.

Out of curiosity, where did the "Treaty of Cheron" title come from?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-01-18 04:18am

Remember, the cloaking device in "Balance of Terror" was new, people. The Treaty of Algeron couldn't be referring to the end of the E/R War because neither side back then had cloaking devices - or so we are led to believe. Someone mentioned the mysterious Tomed Incident - an event that gave the Romulans isolation and freedom to develop and refine their cloaking technology, while the Federation were left short-changed. This could be what the Treaty of Algeron referrs to.

I don't know what the Treaty of Cheron is. But there was a Battle of Cheron, perhaps the treaty refers to the same thing? I don't know when this battle was waged, though. It could have been originally fought in the E/R war, or it could have been an aspect of the Tomed Incident, or it could be both. Who knows? Is the Tomed Incident explained at all?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-18 04:41am

Only that the Tomed Incident was a big embarrassment for the Romulans... and IIRC, there was a political shake-up following it.

The Treaty of Algeron couldn't be referring to the end of the E/R War

Well, it could, until some asshat TNG writer remembered seeing a "Treaty of Algeron" in some dusty old TM from decades back and thought it would be a cool reference to make, not realizing it wouldn't make sense.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-01-18 04:58am

Uraniun235 wrote:
The Treaty of Algeron couldn't be referring to the end of the E/R War
Well, it could, until some asshat TNG writer remembered seeing a "Treaty of Algeron" in some dusty old TM from decades back and thought it would be a cool reference to make, not realizing it wouldn't make sense.

Hmm... A possibility I hadn't considered. Perhaps I give TNG writers too much credit?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-18 07:25am

Shrykull wrote:
DaveJB wrote:
Aya wrote: Wrong. That was the treaty of Charon or something. Algeron was sometime between TOS and TNG. I believe it was just a renegoiating of the neutral zone and other things.
No, I've got that episode on tape. Picard definately says that the Federation can't develop cloaks under the "Treaty of Algeron".
But why not use it in gamma quadrant, how would they know?

They do. cough*defaint*cough

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-01-18 09:56am

Except that the Defiant (the original gunboat, not the cheap replacement

) had a Romulan cloaking device, originally a Romulan observer/operator, and specific criteria to only use it in Dominion space. This was apparently tossed aside after the Klingon war began. With the destruction of the ship by the Breen, no other Fed ship is known to have a cloaking device.