That "weak" sphere from First Contact...

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-16 02:49pm

I've acquired a screenshot of STVOY "Drone". That's the episode in which Voyager gets bitchslapped by one of those...*cough*..."bigass" Borg spheres, despite having a "29th century" Borg drone "upgrading" their defensive capabilities(which didn't help).

Said sphere is the same size as the one seen in Star Trek: First Contact( 600 meters).

(As soon as I get the additonal supporting screenshot from FC, I'll try to mention it here as well, assuming I don't get it too long from now)

Thus the most logical conclusion is they are the same class. Particularily since Seven of Nine described said sphere from STVOY "Drone" as having "temporal capabilities.". The limited firepower and shielding witnessed by the sphere in FC can easily be attributed to the temporal drive depleting their energy reserves.

I knew it. I can provide screenshots and calculations based upon them if requested.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-01-16 03:44pm

Rob, why don't you just put all this in that website you've been talking about building and then tell everyone over here about it. Once they've chewed it up and spat it back at you, you can go back and refine your work.

Works much better than popping in to say "I have great evidence" without being to point right to it.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-16 03:51pm

No, Rob, they were firing physical objects at the camp. Those don't need to be charged up like lasers. Yet the Borg bombs, even dropped from orbit at tremendous speed didn't have much more power than a mortar.

Even if we assume that the Borg were in fact firing some funky kind of energy weapon, but that the time travel had depleted it's batteries, it proves that the Borg powerplant can only generate a tiny amounts of power. After all, if it could pump out the terawatts, it would have smashed the Phoenix camp without an issue.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-01-16 03:59pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:No, Rob, they were firing physical objects at the camp. Those don't need to be charged up like lasers. Yet the Borg bombs, even dropped from orbit at tremendous speed didn't have much more power than a mortar.

Even if we assume that the Borg were in fact firing some funky kind of energy weapon, but that the time travel had depleted it's batteries, it proves that the Borg powerplant can only generate a tiny amounts of power. After all, if it could pump out the terawatts, it would have smashed the Phoenix camp without an issue.

Since when was it determined that they were firing physical objects? Those looked like energy blasts, they didn't have the borg torpedo look which looks like any other torpedo but green.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-01-16 07:18pm

anything entering the atmosphere at that high a velocity would have had a definite heat trail. so there's no way to know for 100% sure whether those were energy blasts or some type of torpedo unless some source can corroberate it.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-01-16 07:24pm

Darth_Zod wrote:anything entering the atmosphere at that high a velocity would have had a definite heat trail. so there's no way to know for 100% sure whether those were energy blasts or some type of torpedo unless some source can corroberate it.

Nothing to corroborate that besides the typical look 99% of all Trek projectiles have had.

VGR "Endgame" is a good example of borg torpedoes.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-16 07:41pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Since when was it determined that they were firing physical objects? Those looked like energy blasts, they didn't have the borg torpedo look which looks like any other torpedo but green.

How many energy blasts look like small green balls?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-01-16 07:41pm

Gil Hamilton wrote: How many energy blasts look like small green balls?

Klingon disruptors.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-16 07:52pm

TheDarkling wrote:Klingon disruptors.

You mean weapons that move drastically less that the speed of light in vacuum ? Energy moves at the speed of light in a vacuum. How exactly are they energy weapons?

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2004-01-16 09:04pm

In Trek, "energy weapons" usually refers to any non-solid-projectile weapon, such as phasers, disruptors, plasma beams, etc. They should more properly be called particle weapons. NO weapons in Trek propagate at c i\n a vacuum, so we have never seen true energy weapons.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-01-16 09:20pm

Gil Hamilton wrote: You mean weapons that move drastically less that the speed of light in vacuum ? Energy moves at the speed of light in a vacuum. How exactly are they energy weapons?

You asked and I answered (as Efamepilot says energy weapons aren't really that in Trek, and particle weapons still require power with is the issue here).
I would guess Klingon disruptors some sort of plasma based weaponry as for what the Borg weapon was, it could be some balls of plasma or some sort of Torp.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-17 01:08am

The Borg do use disruptors. A tactical Cube fired disruptors at the Delta Flyer once and in "Scorpion" it was mentioned that the damage on the Bioshiip was caused by Borg disruptors.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-17 02:58am

Why are all Borg cubes and spheres assumed to be the same? I would posit that each cube or sphere is different. We saw in the original Borg episode ("Q Who" IIRC) that a cube could reconfigure itself to compensate for a huge missing chunk, which means it had to significantly alter its internal structure. So who says that cubes aren't "grown", in such a manner that every cube is different? Maybe some cubes are much weaker than others, and the same might apply to spheres.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-17 11:36am

Darth Wong wrote:Why are all Borg cubes and spheres assumed to be the same? I would posit that each cube or sphere is different. We saw in the original Borg episode ("Q Who" IIRC) that a cube could reconfigure itself to compensate for a huge missing chunk, which means it had to significantly alter its internal structure. So who says that cubes aren't "grown", in such a manner that every cube is different? Maybe some cubes are much weaker than others, and the same might apply to spheres.

An interesting point. Which would you suggest is the more sound theory, significant numbers of Borg vessels are vastly different in internal design, or circumstances can account for differences is behavior? I personally favor the latter very much, but refuse to discount your suggest for fear of becoming a victim(again

) of the infamous Imperial Smackdown.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-17 12:01pm

Ted C wrote:Rob, why don't you just put all this in that website you've been talking about building and then tell everyone over here about it.

Ouch!

I hope my sincerity of building said site is not in question. I do have a HTML pages up and running on my computer(I've sent them to a couple of people already to view). Nothing more than specifications on all known designs of Borg vessels however, and very limited infomation on them so far to boot. The problem is I lack time and resources to construct such a site so quickly, plus I'm still quite new to web design(and I'm lazy too). And the fact I tend to spend my free time browsing SD.net.

I'll have to cut back on my SD.net surfing to devote more time to this project, which I'm planning to do.

I don't want it looking like some idiot's half hearted attempt to "analyse" something either. Though argueably, no matter what it looks like, some will still undoubtably argue this anyhow. They might even be right too...which is depressing and contributing to my insecurity.

Let's face it, I'm not, by far, that great of a debator or analyst. So you can imagine I'm somewhat wary of my capabilities being remotely up to the task.

Once they've chewed it up and spat it back at you, you can go back and refine your work.

Quote: "Let's face it, I'm not, by far, that great of a debator or analyst. So you can imagine I'm somewhat wary of my capabilities being remotely up to the task." As per your statement, you can see I'm not the only one of this opinion.

I trust you'd be more than happy to ruthlessly crush the numerous mistakes and errorous interpretations on my part. And I'd certainly welcome them. You did destroy my Borg KE shielding "likelyhood" arguements from way back.

Works much better than popping in to say "I have great evidence" without being to point right to it.

I did submit I can provide said evidence to those who request it. I'll point out where I got the original image anyhow:

http://members.fortunecity.de/neutralzo ... here03.htm

That's almost the exact screenshot I was looking for relatively accurate scaling. Other images I have verify Voyager was directly underneath and pretty much centered, but I don't have links for them unfortunately.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-18 12:43am

So how long before you finish your site Robert Walper ? It should make an excellent refernce for information on the Borg.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-18 02:17am

evilcat4000 wrote:So how long before you finish your site Robert Walper ? It should make an excellent refernce for information on the Borg.

I'm aiming to have at least the specifications on all Borg ships done within a month or two. Damn my personal life and work!

I'm also trying to make a decent layout for easy and quick referencing, as you just said would be useful.