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Ok, I'm just relaying what I felt when I was that age and those episodes were brand new.

I thought that nothing could be better than this. I had grown up with Star Trek my whole life. Picard, Data, Worf, Riker etc. were my heros. I didn't much into TOS, because it didn't air anywhere I knew. So I watched the TOS and TNG movies.

Anyway, DS9 and Voyager came out in like 1993 and 1994(I think, I'm not sure, I was 7 at the time). And my friends and I loved watching the shows and talking about it the next day.

Well, in middle school, the end of DS9 was coming up, and we all called Ezri 'Jadzia's little sister' because it seemed like they hired her because she looked like her(were we wrong?). Well, We watched as the Section 31 was the one who were wiping out the Founders(GASP), we watched as Kira helped the Cardassian Resistance, who were wiped out by the Dominion(WHOA), and as the Romulans, Klingons, and Federation all joined up side by side to take out the Dominion in one final battle(HOLY GUACAMOLE).

And we loved it, of course. Now its been a few years, and I haven't seen the show since then, and I look back, and I wonder, was Star Trek: DS9 as great as it is in my mind, or is that all old nostalgia?

Your experience mirrors my own, 'cept I'm a bit older than you, it seems.

Seriously, I found DS9 a blast when I first watched it, however by the time season 7 came around I was already in my mid-late teens. By that time I was beginning to have second thoughts, while shows like B5 were making more and more of an impact. I think the point where DS9 lost it's appeal was Sacrifice of Angels, although I didn't realise it until after I had watched most of the episodes after it (where they get married even though they're a stone's throw away from the front; they introduce that stupid Frank Sinatra clone for some stupid reason; they introduce Section 31 as some hard-core Black Ops secret society, when I was hoping they would be an official organisation that has a public face - what is it about secret Spy Organisations, anyway?).

There is some degree of shame from watching a battle-episode where the battle is resolved in the most stupidly contrived and convenient manner, and enjoying it the first time round. Yeah, you heard me - that anticlimactic "Hand of God" ending was well-received by me and my mates when we first watched it - we were totally floored, like we couldn't expect this ending in a million years. God we were stupid.

But after SoA, everything else stopped being... right. Worf and Dax were sent on a hazardous mission together, which was just begging to have something happen to one or the other (to give us the cliche of choosing between your love for your country and your love for your mate/friend/wife etc). Sisko is on a nebula-class ship that is carrying Dukat to prison, and for some strange reason there's no escort? Hell, Sisko's ship is an escort ship! And the whole year climaxes with a battle that is frankly embarassing: the automated defences come online and start taking names, yet for some reason the fleet's weapons can't penetrate their shields - inspite of the fact they're larger and more powerful than the weapon's platforms. So how is the battle resolved? Through Treknobabble! Let's not forget the stupid Pah-wraiths released by Dukat, who kills Jadzia just because, and the equally stupid Sisko, who pauses in the middle of a battle because he's "sensed a strange disturbance in the force." He then goes back to the station and quits, taking a vacation to earth where he can peel some spuds - while men and women are dying in order to give him that privilege.

Then season 7 came around, and I thought "Yeah! We're gonna see some action now! The war's gotta end by the season end." So what do we get instead? Jem'Hadar charging through easily containable chokepoints, and the combatants resorting to H-t-H. The Romulans setting up a supply depot on Bajor's uninhabited 4th moon (or 5th, or 6th - how many fucking moons do they have, anyway?), a strategy necessary in light of how supply lines in ST would be too long due to the limitations of warpdrive - but does any of that register to Kira? No, she just says "Get the hell off our property!" Remind me again why I liked the Bajorans? And then Adm. Ross charges in to her defence. So where the fuck are the Romulans supposed to go to set up their supply depot? Probably in some uninhabited, poorly defended system which the Dominion can kill quite easily.

What else happens? Oh yeah, the war gets put on pause so Sisko can have his vision quest, or whatever; Jadzia is replaced by Minidax aka Ezri (I would have liked to have seen a male Dax look at Worf and say "Hot Pink is definitely your colour!" ); we get another pause so we can have the characters do shit-all for an hour; another pause so we can listen to a Sinatra-wannabe sing his arse off about some shit, and the rest of the crew going in and having adventures; then the war starts up again and we get introduced to the BREEN, a new ally to the bad guys, inspite of the fact that before the BREEN were considered a minor power, not worth losing sleep over. Now, they can hit Starfleet command, and wipe out Starfleet's ships and fleets. I'm not going to go into the crapfest that was the final two-parter.

So, what was the point of my long-winded tirade? That inspite of all these flaws, when I first watched it DS9 was The Shit. It had action, intrigue, Jadzia, Worf, Garak - and there are some episodes which I still enjoy watching. But too much of it was so poorly written, poorly put together, and poorly thought out that it lost whatever appeal it once might have had. In short, it's probably nostalgia dude.

Serious question here guys: for someone who never got into DS9 in highschool (booze and women won out), what pulled you in? I'd seen bits of TNG, and it was lame. Sure 7th season DS9 was poor, but my understanding of plot summaries suggests that it was *always* that way. There was nothing to hook me into DS9... even less so B5, which didn't even have the franchise to get my interest.

I ask, because after being intruiged but not particularly interested in the few bits of B5 I saw, I'm not very impressed by it. Having watched the 2nd and 3rd seasons, its got alot of writing goodness. By contrast, DS9 seems to have far too much same-old same-old sci-fi dumbness. I actually don't like the first season of B5 for just this reason; unconnected boring bullshit.

So I'm wondering if I was wrong about DS9, and if I watched it, would it be as engaging and satisfying as B5? My flatmate and my girlfriend both like B5 now, because whenever the next season comes out I watch it all, and they can't avoid it... but instead of telling me to turn it off and come to dinner, they sit down and watch it. I don't see that happening with *any* ST series. Thoughts?

I was 13, it was the only mainstream scifi show on TV that I knew of, it was continuing the world of ST:TNG(which I grew up on). Does that anwer your question?

I imagine you've rewatched it since then; does the nostalgia hold up? Or is it like my TF season one of lameness?

Sorry, haven't seen it since the finale, so I can't say whether its nostalgia or not.

Stark wrote:Serious question here guys: for someone who never got into DS9 in highschool (booze and women won out), what pulled you in? I'd seen bits of TNG, and it was lame. Sure 7th season DS9 was poor, but my understanding of plot summaries suggests that it was *always* that way. There was nothing to hook me into DS9... even less so B5, which didn't even have the franchise to get my interest.

B5 was rocky for me - I knew people at HS who were into Star Trek who hated B5, which I'm sad to say did colour my impressions of it (peer group pressure is a bitch). TNG was the first sci-fi show I watched, and as such there was a part of me which was loyal to it. DS9 came out at around the same time, so I became a fan due to loyalty, even though there was very little quality in either show.

You must understand that sci-fi was my childhood storytelling, and even when it's bad it's still kinda "good."

I ask, because after being intruiged but not particularly interested in the few bits of B5 I saw, I'm not very impressed by it. Having watched the 2nd and 3rd seasons, its got alot of writing goodness. By contrast, DS9 seems to have far too much same-old same-old sci-fi dumbness. I actually don't like the first season of B5 for just this reason; unconnected boring bullshit.

Season 1 of B5 grabs a lot of flak for a few reasons, and sometimes it's justified, but there are parts of it which are good. Even though seasons 2-4 are the best in terms of storytelling, they're also for the most part "heavy," - while both seasons 1 and 5 are "light."

So I'm wondering if I was wrong about DS9, and if I watched it, would it be as engaging and satisfying as B5?

Nope. ST is completely inferior in comparison. B5 has it's flaws, but not to the same extent as ST - particularly DS9 and VOY (and ENT, but that goes without saying, really). There are some episodes which are gems, but they're too far apart to really make it watchable.

My flatmate and my girlfriend both like B5 now, because whenever the next season comes out I watch it all, and they can't avoid it... but instead of telling me to turn it off and come to dinner, they sit down and watch it. I don't see that happening with *any* ST series. Thoughts?

Well, that should speak for itself.

Never realy watched much Star Trek so I dont feel nostalagic about it. I was the occasional viewer watching reruns of TNG and sometimes DS9.