Why Janeway became an Admiral

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-02 10:41pm

Look at the threads elsewhere in this forum concerning the novel "Mosaic", and you'll see the beginnings of a theory:

Janeway worked closely with Admiral Paris (father of Tom) during her early career in Starfleet and even during her years at the Academy. The two of them were even captured together by Cardassians.
After Tom's tragic accident in which several members of his squad were killed, he became damaged goods, and who takes on Admiral Paris' disgraced son? Captain Janeway.
So when she returns after 7 years out in the middle of nowhere and his son has become an accomplished pilot and decorated officer, the grateful Admiral Paris pulls some strings to get her made into an Admiral.

What do you think? Any holes in that theory?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-01-02 10:51pm

It works well, especially since it can be melded with the other existing theory, that, after seeing her fuckups, they wanted her off a starship.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-01-02 10:51pm

Seems that would work. Admiral Paris probably was also greatful that his son was back even if he was a disgrace. The admiral would probably then see Janeway as the reason he is back. Pulling some strings would seem to be a logical way for her to get promoted. While Janeway met a lot of new species she really did not do much. The Borg thing was the greatest thing she did and we are not even certain that they are destroyed.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-02 11:10pm

Couple things.

First, is Admiral Paris did this, he must be fucking powerful to get Janeway promoted from O6 to O9. A fucking Vice Admiral in an instant.

Second, whats this about Tom loosing several squadmates? This isn't from that TNG episode with Wesley is it? They had the same actor who plays Tom and the original intent was for the same character, but they changed it at the last minute. Are you referring to another incident?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-02 11:13pm

Alyeska wrote:Couple things.

First, is Admiral Paris did this, he must be fucking powerful to get Janeway promoted from O6 to O9. A fucking Vice Admiral in an instant.

Second, whats this about Tom loosing several squadmates? This isn't from that TNG episode with Wesley is it? They had the same actor who plays Tom and the original intent was for the same character, but they changed it at the last minute. Are you referring to another incident?

The Nick LeCarno incident is mirrored in Tom Paris' background, in the novel "Mosaic" (which is supposedly canon according to Paramount, although I know that many fans bitterly dispute that).

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2004-01-02 11:15pm

I forgot, What was Janeway's exact flag rank?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-02 11:41pm

I don't know if Starfleet even has different pip arrangements for differing levels of admiralty... from what I remember of the series, they're all Admirals until someone says otherwise (pretty sure there are still Vice Admirals in TNG).

First, is Admiral Paris did this, he must be fucking powerful to get Janeway promoted from O6 to O9. A fucking Vice Admiral in an instant.

We know there are 'connections' within Starfleet Command. Adm. Pressman in TNG "The Pegasus" seemed confident that he would escape punishment for his actions... "I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command."

I still say it's something along the lines of the "Dilbert principle." Get her out of the command chair while saving face to the Federation populace. But it could be that Admiral Paris carried enough weight to force Starfleet's hand by threatening to expose her embarrassing litany of incompetence unless they promoted her to Admiral.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-02 11:51pm

http://www.st-spike.de/pages/uniforms/2 ... /ranks.htm

There most definately are different levels of Admiral rank in Trek. Spike only posts canon information on his page. He even detailed the inaccuracies of the TOS movie era rank depictions by every offical source.

http://www.st-spike.de/pages/uniforms/2 ... arison.htm

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-03 12:00am

I didn't mean to say that there weren't differing levels of admiralty, but that I didn't know if we ever saw different pip arrangements to reflect this in TNG. Now I know.

(and knowing is half the battle!)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-01-03 12:17am

paladin wrote:I forgot, What was Janeway's exact flag rank?

Vice Admiral

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-01-03 12:37am

My theory is that the public became quite fasinated with the story of Voyager (there were school children being taken on tours of the Pathfinder Project). THe lone starship, battling unknown species, trying to find anyway home. Of course, when Janeway (unfortunately) arrives home, she was greeted as a hero since the public didn't know she was a incompetent phycotic bitch and they weren't going to listen. You can't court martial a hero, so they stuck here in a desk job where her job is to give other people's orders.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-01-03 12:39am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:My theory is that the public became quite fasinated with the story of Voyager (there were school children being taken on tours of the Pathfinder Project). THe lone starship, battling unknown species, trying to find anyway home. Of course, when Janeway (unfortunately) arrives home, she was greeted as a hero since the public didn't know she was a incompetent phycotic bitch and they weren't going to listen. You can't court martial a hero, so they stuck here in a desk job where her job is to give other people's orders.

Just like they did with McArthur (except he could command troops), makes sense.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-03 12:42am

Of course, there's also the possibility that Janeway simply falsified all of the records, and her crew went along with her. But given my personal experience with bureaucracies, I find that just about everything happens because somebody with connections makes it happen. That's why I favour the Admiral Paris explanation.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-03 12:44am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:My theory is that the public became quite fasinated with the story of Voyager (there were school children being taken on tours of the Pathfinder Project). THe lone starship, battling unknown species, trying to find anyway home. Of course, when Janeway (unfortunately) arrives home, she was greeted as a hero since the public didn't know she was a incompetent phycotic bitch and they weren't going to listen. You can't court martial a hero, so they stuck here in a desk job where her job is to give other people's orders.

I would have thought the public would have been more pre-occupied with the Dominion War and its rebuilding aftermath, which is probably still ongoing at the time Voyager returns.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-03 01:02am

Darth Wong wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:My theory is that the public became quite fasinated with the story of Voyager (there were school children being taken on tours of the Pathfinder Project). THe lone starship, battling unknown species, trying to find anyway home. Of course, when Janeway (unfortunately) arrives home, she was greeted as a hero since the public didn't know she was a incompetent phycotic bitch and they weren't going to listen. You can't court martial a hero, so they stuck here in a desk job where her job is to give other people's orders.
I would have thought the public would have been more pre-occupied with the Dominion War and its rebuilding aftermath, which is probably still ongoing at the time Voyager returns.

Given the idealist nature of the Federation they were probably already tired of War Hero's and wanted an explorer hero who beat all odds. Of course the fact that she violated all the other closely held principles is ignored because she got her crew home.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-03 01:10am

Alyeska wrote: Given the idealist nature of the Federation they were probably already tired of War Hero's and wanted an explorer hero who beat all odds.

Bah, they'd rather elect a Charles Lindberg than a Dwight D Eisenhower

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-03 02:24am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:My theory is that the public became quite fasinated with the story of Voyager (there were school children being taken on tours of the Pathfinder Project). THe lone starship, battling unknown species, trying to find anyway home. Of course, when Janeway (unfortunately) arrives home, she was greeted as a hero since the public didn't know she was a incompetent phycotic bitch and they weren't going to listen. You can't court martial a hero, so they stuck here in a desk job where her job is to give other people's orders.

Exactly. Also recall that with the Dominion war having ended two years prior to Voyager's return home, Starfleet needed heroes to help bolster support for the orginization; Janeway was perfect for the role. Thus, the public gets its hero and Starfleet gets KJ off a starship.

I'm actually going to be looking into this with upcoming chapters of my story 'The Best of Both Wars'; guess which Starfleet Admiral argued against Janeway's promotion...

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-01-03 02:46am

my theory: Janeway discovered admiral paris' secret fetish involving K/S pr0n on the holodecks and blackmailed him into promoting her.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2004-01-03 06:00am

Darth_Zod wrote:my theory: Janeway discovered admiral paris' secret fetish involving K/S pr0n on the holodecks and blackmailed him into promoting her.

Quick, someone check The Secret Logs of Mistress Janeway to see if Admiral Paris was one of her submissives!

-- Joe Momma

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-01-03 03:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:Of course, there's also the possibility that Janeway simply falsified all of the records, and her crew went along with her. But given my personal experience with bureaucracies, I find that just about everything happens because somebody with connections makes it happen. That's why I favour the Admiral Paris explanation.

And isn't she also supposedly the daughter of another Admiral?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2004-01-03 05:01pm

Alyeska wrote:http://www.st-spike.de/pages/uniforms/2 ... /ranks.htm

There most definately are different levels of Admiral rank in Trek. Spike only posts canon information on his page. He even detailed the inaccuracies of the TOS movie era rank depictions by every offical source.

http://www.st-spike.de/pages/uniforms/2 ... arison.htm

All I get is "ACCESS DENIED" where the graphics for the rank pins should be. Can anyone help me with this?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-03 10:27pm

Mike's explanation works well, though I subscribed to the "promote her out of ship command" theory. They could have placed her safe like someone in charge of the fleet freighters or some other logistics-based command.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2004-01-03 10:50pm

phongn wrote:Mike's explanation works well, though I subscribed to the "promote her out of ship command" theory. They could have placed her safe like someone in charge of the fleet freighters or some other logistics-based command.

You scare me...wars are won and lost by logistics. She will definately screw it up. Find her a command where she actually commands nothing but sounds good....maybe a PR position or liason to an undersecretary with no powers himself

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-03 10:59pm

Kitsune wrote:
phongn wrote:Mike's explanation works well, though I subscribed to the "promote her out of ship command" theory. They could have placed her safe like someone in charge of the fleet freighters or some other logistics-based command.
You scare me...wars are won and lost by logistics. She will definately screw it up. Find her a command where she actually commands nothing but sounds good....maybe a PR position or liason to an undersecretary with no powers himself

Yes, I know wars are won and lost by them, but who knows? Maybe she's actually competent at it, or her people are competent enough to make her be the figurehead who does no work. She did keep her ship running without resupply (and quite a bit of combat) for awhile.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-01-03 11:03pm

Kitsune wrote:
phongn wrote:Mike's explanation works well, though I subscribed to the "promote her out of ship command" theory. They could have placed her safe like someone in charge of the fleet freighters or some other logistics-based command.
You scare me...wars are won and lost by logistics. She will definately screw it up. Find her a command where she actually commands nothing but sounds good....maybe a PR position or liason to an undersecretary with no powers himself

Himself? I know Janeway looks bad, but really...

IIRC (I don't exactly rewatch Nemesis a lot) Janeway was giving Picard an order from Starfleet Command from a desk, with the only thing she was doing was making stupid arogant remarks