Sympathy for B&B!!!!

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-11-17 07:10pm

http://www.section31.com/columns/hail10.html

He trusts them with Trek's future?????? WTF!

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-11-17 08:53pm

My favorite line from the article:

Recently, Braga lashed out at the Trek doomsayers and challenged them to find one legitimate continuity error, just one.

Why does the phrase "like shooting fish in a barrel" come to mind?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-17 09:09pm

paladin wrote:My favorite line from the article:

Recently, Braga lashed out at the Trek doomsayers and challenged them to find one legitimate continuity error, just one.
Why does the phrase "like shooting fish in a barrel" come to mind?

You can name a whole pile of them, and Braga and/or his apologists would simply keep moving the goalposts.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-11-17 09:12pm

Patrick Degan wrote: You can name a whole pile of them, and Braga and/or his apologists would simply keep moving the goalposts.

Probably just like creationists, you point an error out and they simply ignore you

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-11-17 09:59pm

S31 wrote:...penning the infamous "Ode to Spot." Writing that poem alone qualifies him as a great writer in my book.

BARF!!

And I just saw Schisms the other day too. I couldn't sit through that poem to save my life. I *HAD* to change the channel lest I put a bullet through the telly...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-17 11:08pm

Reading through this guy's list of Braga's "impressive" episodes, I found that most of the shows he wrote were either shit or mediocre.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-17 11:17pm

Stofsk wrote:Reading through this guy's list of Braga's "impressive" episodes, I found that most of the shows he wrote were either shit or mediocre.

Pretty much like the two series he's been responsible for.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-11-18 12:21am

I like this one

It was Berman who made Star Trek famous and Braga who churned out some of the greatest episodes TNG ever saw.

Because as we all know, no one knew of, nor cared about ST before B&B.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-18 03:48am

The guy thinks that Berman made Star Trek famous? He thinks TOS was not famous? Could somebody please beat some sense into this idiot?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-11-18 12:22pm

The best part is he basically has to trivialize sitcoms and go "Trek is better".

He almost doesn't show the show's high points, but instead shows that his fave shows aren't as low as bad sitcoms and reality shows.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-11-18 12:26pm

The title for this thread automatically made me think of Sympathy for the Devil

Ooo oo, Please allow me to introduce myself ....

Sorry, I have more sympathy for the devil than I do for Berman and Braga. Especially not for Braga. Not only has he been jacking up Trek he's managed to bang Jerri Ryan in the deal as well. Talk about someone who must have sold their soul to someone (that someone not being a Trek fan).

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-11-18 03:08pm

B&B fanboy wrote:First, let's take a look at Braga. He started as an intern until, during TNG's fourth season, he became a writer for the show. During his career at TNG, he wrote Identity Crisis, The Game, Cause and Effect

That alone proves Braga an idiot. That episode by itself makes the crew of the E-D into morons.

When discussing solutions to their time looping problem, someone brings up the possibility of changing course. The idea is shot down by arguing that changing course may be what gets them into time loop in the first place. What they don't seem to realize it the FIRST time they went through the loop, they wouldn't have any warning of whats comming and have no reason to change course, therefore, they obviously didn't change course. Yet they wound up in the loop.

Idiots

(Possible suggestion for the SD.net Canon database)

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-18 04:10pm

Cause and Effect was just a plain bad episode, in my opinion. It was just fucking boring watching the same goddamn scene over and over again, and worst of all they probably blew a significant amount of VFX dollars on showing the Enterprise exploding three different ways. My God, that episode was the personification of the 'reset button'; they hit it during the episode itself!

It was also a "ZOMG WARP CORE BREACH EJECTORS FAILED" incident and "LOL STUPID CREW" episode. Oh, and it also introduced the stupid "decompress the shuttlebay and zoom goes the Enterprise" element. Then there's Picard asking for fucking obvious suggestions like using the tractor beam. I should have known that was a Braga creation.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-11-18 04:31pm

I think we should email that guy and beat some sense into him and then and point out some continuity errors B&B made and beat some sense into their heads.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-11-18 05:12pm

Tsyroc wrote:The title for this thread automatically made me think of Sympathy for the Devil Ooo oo, Please allow me to introduce myself ....

Sorry, I have more sympathy for the devil than I do for Berman and Braga. Especially not for Braga. Not only has he been jacking up Trek he's managed to bang Jerri Ryan in the deal as well. Talk about someone who must have sold their soul to someone (that someone not being a Trek fan).

hehehe

i didn't think
that the shows would stink
when voyager made it's way
'cross the tv waves!

i shouted out 'Continuity!'
when after all, i didn't give a shit!

pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name
but whats puzzling you, is the crappy video game

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-18 05:40pm

Hey, I liked "Ode to Spot"...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-18 11:36pm

Darth Servo wrote:When discussing solutions to their time looping problem, someone brings up the possibility of changing course. The idea is shot down by arguing that changing course may be what gets them into time loop in the first place. What they don't seem to realize it the FIRST time they went through the loop, they wouldn't have any warning of whats comming and have no reason to change course, therefore, they obviously didn't change course. Yet they wound up in the loop. Idiots

Y'know that's almost as confusing as the episode itself. Not only was it a stupid premise (Groundhog day in ST? And naturally it's caused by a space-time distortion anomaly or some other such bullshit technobabble.) but, once again, we're shown how the intrepid crew of the Enterprise are really a bunch of morons.

The other episodes he cited were (mostly) shit as well:

Sympathy for the Devil wrote: During his career at TNG, he wrote Identity Crisis, The Game, Cause and Effect, Realm of Fear, Birthright Part. I, Frame of Mind, Timescape, Phantasms, Parallels, Sub Rosa, Eye of the Beholder, and Genesis. He also shares writing credits for Reunion, Aquiel, Emergence, and the incomparable All Good Things.

Identity Crisis: LaForge turns into an alien. At the end he turns back. Yay.
The Game: Wes Crusher returns to the Enterprise long enough to say hi to his mum and foil an Alien Plot to subvert the Federation from the inside. Double-yay.
Cause and Effect: Hits the reboot button more times than I do for my computer.
Realm of Fear: Using the transporter proves to be a risk, as aliens may try to steal your soul (or something). Remarkably, they continue using the transporter in subsequent episodes/series.
Birthright pt.1: Data learns to dream. Worf has another family episode.
Frame of Mind: Riker goes nuts. If only he could've stayed that way...
Timescape: I haven't seen this episode, but the premise is the ship and crew get frozen in time.

Phantasms: Not only can Data dream, but he can sleepwalk too! Plus, he apparently has a "serial killer" program, as he goes around knifing people.
Parallels: I actually enjoyed this episode, I liked how they showed different realties. Favourite scene was the desperate and bearded Riker screaming he won't go back to his Borg infested universe.
Sub Rosa: Beverly is seduced by a ghost. It turns out it wasn't really a ghost, but a plasma-based life form. What the fuck?

Eye of the Beholder: I honestly don't recall this one. Probably not a good sign...
Genesis: The crew "de-evolve" into all manner of humanoid critters. Though I enjoyed watching Riker revert to a neanderthal, and Troi becoming a Frog, I found this one to be, frankly, ridiculous. The technobabble solution (there's always a technobabble solution in the end) didn't help things.
Reunion: An okay episode. I found it strange that the Klingon Chancellor entrusted Picard to facilitate the transfer of power, but took it to mean the Klingons were becoming more and more decadent (as in they were losing their society and culture, especially if they had to get an outsider to handle their affairs).
Aquiel: LaForge love story. There needs to be a barf emoticon, I cannot fully express my dislike for this episode otherwise.
Emergence: The Enterprise computer develops sentience and sapience. It likes to hang out in the Holodeck. At the end it frees itself from the confining walls of the ship and flies through space, happy as a bird. Yay.
All Good Things: Pros - Q annoying (toturing) Picard, and Picard has to take it like a bitch because the End Is Nigh. Oh, and Future Riker is a badass, while Future Worf is a pansy. Interesting role reversal, I was laughing when I first saw it. Cons - Picards win (yes, that is the plural). Technobabble solution. Really didn't say anything important. Conclusion - not a favourite episode, but a much better finale than What you Leave behind.

I know the general consensus is that Braga is an idiot, but the episodes above may be liked by some people, who may also take offence. If so I apologise, but those episodes were shit and were written by the King of Shitheads. I was also trying to be light-hearted in my summaries.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-19 05:40am

I love it when he says that Voyager was not a bad series. Uhhh... HELLO? Voyager was a HORRIBLE series!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-11-19 05:55am

Tsyroc wrote:The title for this thread automatically made me think of Sympathy for the Devil Ooo oo, Please allow me to introduce myself ....

Sorry, I have more sympathy for the devil than I do for Berman and Braga. Especially not for Braga. Not only has he been jacking up Trek he's managed to bang Jerri Ryan in the deal as well. Talk about someone who must have sold their soul to someone (that someone not being a Trek fan).

Well hell yeah, Lucifer and Hades have a LOT more style and Taste, not to mention even Angel Heart is more watchable then Star Trek these days....

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-11-19 10:02am

Darth Wong wrote:The guy thinks that Berman made Star Trek famous? He thinks TOS was not famous? Could somebody please beat some sense into this idiot?

See you have it all wrong. Its a typo. The article should really state that Berman made Star Trek infamous.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-11-19 11:40am

Stofsk wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:When discussing solutions to their time looping problem, someone brings up the possibility of changing course. The idea is shot down by arguing that changing course may be what gets them into time loop in the first place. What they don't seem to realize it the FIRST time they went through the loop, they wouldn't have any warning of whats comming and have no reason to change course, therefore, they obviously didn't change course. Yet they wound up in the loop. Idiots
Y'know that's almost as confusing as the episode itself.

OK, I'll simplify it.

Point 1) They realize they are in a loop because they get technobabble feedback and echos from their previous trips through the loop.

Point 2) One person suggests simply changing course to get out of said loop. The idea is dismissed on the speculation that changing course might be what gets them into the loop in the first place.

Point 3) On their FIRST trip through the loop, they obviously would NOT have any of the technobabble echos from previous trips since there hadn't been any yet.

Point 4) W/o any warning of the comming problems, they would have no reason to suspect them. Therefore, they clearly did NOT change course the first time they went through the loop. Therefore, any 10 year old can eliminate the absurd possibility that changing course is what gets them into the loop yet the crew does not do this. Instead they just blindly follow what ever was the last suggestion at the E-D's round table.

Clear yet?

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-11-21 03:08pm

Superman wrote:I love it when he says that Voyager was not a bad series. Uhhh... HELLO? Voyager was a HORRIBLE series!

Not to mention that Enterprise is getting dismal reviews....

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-11-21 04:22pm

Stofsk wrote: I know the general consensus is that Braga is an idiot, but the episodes above may be liked by some people, who may also take offence. If so I apologise, but those episodes were shit and were written by the King of Shitheads. I was also trying to be light-hearted in my summaries.

Although I really didn't like a number of those episodes, I will say that Braga has some writing talent, however slim it might be. The problem is that when he was working on TNG, his writing was critiqued and rewritten by the cadre of TNG writers before it became a final script. In Enterprise (and to a certain extent, Voyager) Braga has/had a much greater influence over the finished prodcut.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-21 05:57pm

Reunion: An okay episode. I found it strange that the Klingon Chancellor entrusted Picard to facilitate the transfer of power, but took it to mean the Klingons were becoming more and more decadent (as in they were losing their society and culture, especially if they had to get an outsider to handle their affairs).

Err, what about Picard's role as Arbiter of Succession in Redemption? Or an earlier episode which I cannot remember the name of?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2003-11-21 08:28pm

Ghost Rider wrote:The best part is he basically has to trivialize sitcoms and go "Trek is better".

He almost doesn't show the show's high points, but instead shows that his fave shows aren't as low as bad sitcoms and reality shows.

Well, in fairness, Trek is better than sitcoms and infinitely better than reality shows.