What if the Dominion got it's reinforcements...

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-11-02 06:55pm

Assume for a moment that Sisko and co on the Defiant don't make it to DS9 in time to enter the wormhole and enlist the aid of the prophets. Or if you prefer, assume Kira and co on the station fail to disable the station's weaponry. Either way, the Dominion gets it's reinforcements (initially 2800 ships, if my memory of that episode serves me correctly).

I can see the Klingons engaging in a fight to the death (and given the Dominion's policies, to the death it would be), and it would not surprise me if Weyoun had his way and wiped out earth... unless the Federation were to surrender? It doesn't strike me as terribly unlikely that the Feds would surrender (though I'm not certain on that point), so what would happen next? Romulans, Breen, assorted other races- do they try and fight, or join the Dominion? What happens?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-02 07:07pm

The allies would be throughly boned. Keep in mind that the Dominion had made it pretty deep into Feddie space, having held Betazed and Trill (I believe) before the Romulans joined the war and freed those planets.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-11-02 07:30pm

How did the Breen manage to attack Earth?

Agent R · Post by **Agent R** » 2003-11-02 07:42pm

They had cloaks Starfleet couldn't scan through?

*shrug*

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-02 08:20pm

The Dominion acted so stupidly in that war they might well have squandered every ship they got without bringing victory.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-02 08:31pm

The Breen attack on Earth was a complete surprise. SF knew jack about the Breen and didn't expect them to attack. It, of course showed how defenseless the Sol system was. But really, the Breen should've attacked the Utopia Plantia shipyards. Those were a more vital target than Earth.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-02 09:05pm

Conversely, they may also have been better defended.

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2003-11-02 09:16pm

Wasn't the damage from the Breen attack on Earth so superficial that if Utopia Planitia shipyards were attacked instead, the shipyards would have remained largely intact?

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-11-02 10:27pm

I read in Star Trek Magazine that the Breen attack was going to be more devastating, but it was either the Breen attack fleet were fighting on the way to Earth, leaving only a superficial attack, or that Earth's defenses took them out pretty quickly, I forget which reason it was.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » 2003-11-02 11:53pm

FaxModem1 wrote:I read in Star Trek Magazine that the Breen attack was going to be more devastating, but it was either the Breen attack fleet were fighting on the way to Earth, leaving only a superficial attack, or that Earth's defenses took them out pretty quickly, I forget which reason it was.

Well, supposedly from what i read in an RPG book, the Breen decloaked near the Mars Defense Perimeter and blew it to hell, also engaging Utopia Planetia and destroying some shipyards there. Their real target was psychological though, so they hit Earth. They hit San Francisco, Beijing, Paris, New York through orbital bombardment while they were getting pounded by the surface batteries that are mounted on the Luna and on Earth. The Third Fleet was stationed in Alpha Centauri and joined in and destroyed the entire Breen force within minutes of engaging them, about 300 Breen ships were involved in the battle and they lost most of them before they withdrew.

Not canon, but its something

:p

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-11-03 12:29am

Canon information stated the Breen were destroyed before Starfleet reinforcements at Mars could arrive, in 5 minutes time. This means Earth was indeed defended. Either by ships or static defense structures. Additionaly Starfleet ships were alert enough they could get from Mars to Earth in just 5 minutes. Given that the Dominion is not known to have cloaking technology and with sensor networks, the main Starfleet force at Utopia Planitia (most logical location at Mars to be located) has plenty of time to move and engage enemy forces before they can strike Sol targets. It was the Breen using cloaking devices that got passed the system.

What this means is that Starfleet completely discounted a cloaked threat and all of their high powered detection systems (SWACs Nebulas, Novas, Space Stations, etc...) were not opperating.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-03 02:15am

What would have happened?

Well if GR's Andromeda is any indicator id say the Feds were royally fudged. Is it true that series was supposed to take place after DS9 asa postwar scenario far in ze future?

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-11-03 02:35am

The Alpha Quadrant takes it in the ass, thats what happens.
At that point the Feddies and Klingons were in serious trouble, 2,800 ships, and the millions of fresh Jem'Hadar would have tipped the balance in favor of the Cardie/Dominion Alliance in a hurry. Even without these reinforcements the Alliance was still kicking ass, driving deep into Federation territory with victories at Trill, and most seriously Betazed whos fall provided the Dominion with a base within easy strike range of Tellar, Vulcan and Earth. This is why Sisko breaks every damn rule in the book to pull the Romulans into the fight. Without the Romulans to open up a second front to the galactic 'east' the Alliance is within six months of victory over the Federation and Klingons.

Also, as far as I know Andromeda and Trek are completly unrelated universes. In Andromeda, Earth is discovered by a Vedran explorator team about 400 years prior to the time seen in the pilot episode of Andromeda.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-03 02:56am

I heard that the concept for Andromeda was a post-Dominion War universe. Replacing "Commonwealth" with "Federation". But it didn't sit well with people to have the Feds actually lose so it ended up becoming a different show.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-03 02:24pm

Aya wrote:The allies would be throughly boned. Keep in mind that the Dominion had made it pretty deep into Feddie space, having held Betazed and Trill (I believe) before the Romulans joined the war and freed those planets.

I don't recall the Dominion taking Trill, they took the Bolian System (which may or may not be a Federation world but they seem to be Fed allies if not outright members) and within a week or two of entering the war the Romulans thrown them out of the system.

Agent R · Post by **Agent R** » 2003-11-04 01:31am

TheDarkling wrote:
Aya wrote:The allies would be throughly boned. Keep in mind that the Dominion had made it pretty deep into Feddie space, having held Betazed and Trill (I believe) before the Romulans joined the war and freed those planets.
I don't recall the Dominion taking Trill, they took the Bolian System (which may or may not be a Federation world but they seem to be Fed allies if not outright members) and within a week or two of entering the war the Romulans thrown them out of the system.

Bolarus (the Bolian system)? I heard it was Benzar the Romulans liberated.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-04 02:11am

I think the FKR would be ultimately screwed. It would still be a hard victory though. The Federation would probably surrender after a time, in Yesterday's Enterprise they talk of it.
The Klingons would be a bitch to kill, they'd probably call up everyone in their last ditch effort to defend themselves.
Assuming they take the Romulans then, they too would be a lot more problematic than the other two. With no real morals they'd probably try some behind the line stuff like bioweapons and such. Like the trilithium thing from Generations.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-11-04 09:12am

Wasn't there a fanfic at ASVS, which used exactly that scenario and then fast forwarded a few years?
That galaxy was a very dark place then.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-04 09:18am

Tribun wrote:Wasn't there a fanfic at ASVS, which used exactly that scenario and then fast forwarded a few years?
That galaxy was a very dark place then.

Linkage?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-04 06:10pm

Agent R wrote:
Bolarus (the Bolian system)? I heard it was Benzar the Romulans liberated.

Thats how I remembered it but the scrpit says Bolarus.

SISKO
The Romulans have forced the
Dominion to retreat from the
Bolian System.

ODO
That is good news. The question
is, will the Romulans be willing
to leave Bolarus after the war's
over?

Which makes sense since we know that the Bolians do trade with the Romulans in a large way, meaning they should be near Romulan space.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-11-04 10:24pm

The Dominion would overwhelm the Alpha Quadrant and then be taken out by some upstart race from a backwater planet who only recently discovered FTL travel but haven't yet forgotten about competent military tactics.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-05 01:57am

Drooling Iguana wrote:The Dominion would overwhelm the Alpha Quadrant and then be taken out by some upstart race from a backwater planet who only recently discovered FTL travel but haven't yet forgotten about competent military tactics.

Is that a joke ? The Dominion may be incompetent on the ground as they lack any sort of ground armour, fire support etc but in space their forces outclass even the Federation. That alone will win them victory.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-05 02:18am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:The Dominion would overwhelm the Alpha Quadrant and then be taken out by some upstart race from a backwater planet who only recently discovered FTL travel but haven't yet forgotten about competent military tactics.
Is that a joke ? The Dominion may be incompetent on the ground as they lack any sort of ground armour, fire support etc but in space their forces outclass even the Federation. That alone will win them victory.

Or the Dominion could just plow their ships into the planet if all else fails.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-11-05 02:56pm

IIRC didn't the federation destroy the factory that produced the white, thus causing the Vorta to be careless with the Jem'hadar. If the Vorta ended up with too many soldiers and not enough white there'd be mary hell.

Lord MJ · Post by **Lord MJ** » 2003-11-05 10:48pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Agent R wrote:
Bolarus (the Bolian system)? I heard it was Benzar the Romulans liberated.
Thats how I remembered it but the scrpit says Bolarus.

SISKO
The Romulans have forced the
Dominion to retreat from the
Bolian System.

ODO
That is good news. The question
is, will the Romulans be willing
to leave Bolarus after the war's
over?

Which makes sense since we know that the Bolians do trade with the Romulans in a large way, meaning they should be near Romulan space.

I think it was Benzar in the actual episode. I'll have to rewatch it to be sure.