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Something i've noticed in Trek: For the mostpart, Klingon Weapons are far more powerful than Federation weaponry.

I give these examples:

ST 3:

A BOP effortlessly and totally destroys an Oberth class ship (Couple of hundred metres in length) with a single torpedo. The Grissom's sheilds may also have been up at the time, though this is not certain.

ST: DS9 'A Return to Grace'

A BOP completley destroys a Cardassian freighter (about 240 Metres long) in a few disruptor blasts. The freighter was damaged at the time, however the metallic bulk of the vessel remains the issue.

ST: DS9 'Apocalypse Rising'

Dukat on his BOP (same one as in 'Return To Grace') again totally destroys another vessel, this time another BOP (about 100 metres long?) in 4 disruptor blasts. The vessel was unsheilded.

ST: TNG 'Redemption Part 2'

This time a Vor'Cha Class Attack Cruiser fires on a unsheilded BOP. The BOP is obliterated in one shot.

Though i'm not sure of my power estimates, correct me if i'm wrong but KT explosions indicates TW energy? All of those incidents indicate high KT, maybe even low MT energy and explosive weapons.

Thoughts?

It's certainly plausible (off the top of my head)- but I'd be leery of DS9 examples- warp core breaches might account for many of them. We all know how those things act- especially on vessels of dubious pedigree.

Bear in mind that Oberth is a science vessel designed with only a peaceful purpose in mind. Its size doesn't really matter in this case.

Also, as the unfortunate tactical officer of Kruge's BoP says, it was "a lucky shot".

I think a better implication of firepower superority might be that klingon ships typically have fewer weapons then their federation counterparts, yet can still match them in a fight.

This could be due to other factrs like manuverability, speed, shields or something though.

*waits for sean to show up*

In the Vor'cha example they used the main disruptor canon on the front of the ship which from its size looks to be like a heavy hitter. Plus we are not completely sure what they targeted with that shot, it could have been the warp core which caused a breach.

I will note that the Kilngons seem to have no rear firing arcs and that all or most of their weapons point forward.

OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

Uraniun235 wrote:OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

Indeed, and those were blasts from K'Vort-class cruisers which are larger than the smaller Birds-of-prey and are supposed to have heavier firepower and shielding (one took a direct hit from a full spread of photon torpedeos with only moderate shield damage).

TurboPhaser wrote:Something i've noticed in Trek: For the mostpart, Klingon Weapons are far more powerful than Federation weaponry.

I give these examples:

ST 3:

A BOP effortlessly and totally destroys an Oberth class ship (Couple of hundred metres in length) with a single torpedo. The Grissom's sheilds may also have been up at the time, though this is not certain.

The Oberth is just a science vessel, and the E-D did destroy a Miranda class starship with a single torpedo as well in the episode "Unnatural Selection"

ST: DS9 'A Return to Grace'

A BOP completley destroys a Cardassian freighter (about 240 Metres long) in a few disruptor blasts. The freighter was damaged at the time, however the metallic bulk of the vessel remains the issue.

The E-D destroyed a vessel of similiar size in "Conundrum"

ST: DS9 'Apocalypse Rising'

Dukat on his BOP (same one as in 'Return To Grace') again totally destroys another vessel, this time another BOP (about 100 metres long?) in 4 disruptor blasts. The vessel was unsheilded.

The E-D and Defiant have done the same thing. "Yesterdays Enterprise" and "Way of the Warrior"

ST: TNG 'Redemption Part 2'

This time a Vor'Cha Class Attack Cruiser fires on a unsheilded BOP. The BOP is obliterated in one shot.

The E-D phasers not only bring down the shields of a K'vort class Battlecruiser, but they destroy it upon contact.

Though i'm not sure of my power estimates, correct me if i'm wrong but KT explosions indicates TW energy? All of those incidents indicate high KT, maybe even low MT energy and explosive weapons.

Thoughts?

I believe that Klingon and Federation weaponry are an even match.

Kamakazie Sith wrote: The E-D phasers not only bring down the shields of a K'vort class Battlecruiser, but they destroy it upon contact.

That was long into the battle; we saw at the beginning a K'vort take a full salvo of 4-5 torps without suffering shield collapse. Just because the E-D delt the killing blow with a single phaser blast doesn't mean that it only takes one shot to kill them.

Uraniun235 wrote:OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

That was in a timeline where the Feds had been at war though. Its reasonable to assume that both weapons and shields were superior to the normal timeline.

The Kernel wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: The E-D phasers not only bring down the shields of a K'vort class Battlecruiser, but they destroy it upon contact.

That was long into the battle; we saw at the beginning a K'vort take a full salvo of 4-5 torps without suffering shield collapse. Just because the E-D delt the killing blow with a single phaser blast doesn't mean that it only takes one shot to kill them.

I didn't mean to imply that. What I mean is the phaser cut through the remaining shield and still managed to destroy the ship. Which is a bit more impressive than what the Vor'cha did.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

That was in a timeline where the Feds had been at war though. Its reasonable to assume that both weapons and shields were superior to the normal timeline.

Then again it's reasonable to assume that the weapons have the same firepower.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

That was in a timeline where the Feds had been at war though. Its reasonable to assume that both weapons and shields were superior to the normal timeline.

Indeed. And IIRC, the Feds were losing. Thus, if any difference exists, the Klingons should be even better in that timeline than in the "real" one.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

The Kernel wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: The E-D phasers not only bring down the shields of a K'vort class Battlecruiser, but they destroy it upon contact.

That was long into the battle; we saw at the beginning a K'vort take a full salvo of 4-5 torps without suffering shield collapse. Just because the E-D delt the killing blow with a single phaser blast doesn't mean that it only takes one shot to kill them.

I didn't mean to imply that. What I mean is the phaser cut through the remaining shield and still managed to destroy the ship. Which is a bit more impressive than what the Vor'cha did.

But we didn't SEE any shield reaction so for all we know, the Klingons shields were already down. I will admit though that Klingon ships seem to be much more poorly armored then their Federation counterparts.

But we didn't SEE any shield reaction

Incorrect. We see the shield flare, and then the shield fails, allowing the phaser to directly strike the Klingon ship momentarily before it exploded.

As for the firepower question, it's possible the weapons are actually weaker than they might be, since they were never allied and as such could never have participated in any cooperative military programs. I don't think there's any easy answer to the problem.

Uraniun235 wrote:

But we didn't SEE any shield reaction

Incorrect. We see the shield flare, and then the shield fails, allowing the phaser to directly strike the Klingon ship momentarily before it exploded.

As for the firepower question, it's possible the weapons are actually weaker than they might be, since they were never allied and as such could never have participated in any cooperative military programs. I don't think there's any easy answer to the problem.

*hunts for copy of Yesterday's Enterprise*

I'm like 99% sure that we didn't see a shield reaction...

The Kernel wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:

But we didn't SEE any shield reaction

Incorrect. We see the shield flare, and then the shield fails, allowing the phaser to directly strike the Klingon ship momentarily before it exploded.

As for the firepower question, it's possible the weapons are actually weaker than they might be, since they were never allied and as such could never have participated in any cooperative military programs. I don't think there's any easy answer to the problem.

*hunts for copy of Yesterday's Enterprise*

I'm like 99% sure that we didn't see a shield reaction...

This is why I don't only trust birth control.......

Uraniun235 wrote:...

D'oh!!!!!!!

This is why I don't gamble

Howedar wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:OTOH, in Yesterday's Enterprise it took several volleys to bring down the E-D's shields.

That was in a timeline where the Feds had been at war though. Its reasonable to assume that both weapons and shields were superior to the normal timeline.

Indeed. And IIRC, the Feds were losing. Thus, if any difference exists, the Klingons should be even better in that timeline than in the "real" one.

Not necessarily, the Fed's are a lot more technically minded than the Klingons. The Klingons might have better tactics or a better resolve, Worf mentions something along these lines in "Inter Arma...". The Federation might have been trying diplomatic stuff like in the start of the Dominion war, or too many defensive tactics.

Or, the Federation could have had a shortage of good, aggressive, combat-oriented officers during the early stages of the war, and were already at a disadvantage from early defeats by the time their crews got up to snuff.

Keep in mind that by the time the Dominion War rolls around the Federation has been on its toes as a result of the Cardassian War and the continued Borg threat, and thus, has begun re-emphasizing combat capability in its vessels and captains. Imagine if the Federation had found itself at war with the Dominion without having had the Borg threat hanging over its head to encourage the development of weapons and tactics!

An interesting observation. You could say that the Borg threat actually saved Federation from Dominion onslaught, since they were forced to develop more combat-oriented solutions.

The Kernel wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: The E-D phasers not only bring down the shields of a K'vort class Battlecruiser, but they destroy it upon contact.

That was long into the battle; we saw at the beginning a K'vort take a full salvo of 4-5 torps without suffering shield collapse. Just because the E-D delt the killing blow with a single phaser blast doesn't mean that it only takes one shot to kill them.

Actually if I remember correctly the phaser blast played across the Klingon vessel for a moment (suggesting that there were still some level of shields functioning) then when the shields collapsed the remaining energy from that same phaser blast was enough to completely destroy the ship.

Oberleutnant wrote:An interesting observation. You could say that the Borg threat actually saved Federation from Dominion onslaught, since they were forced to develop more combat-oriented solutions.

That has been my opinion for years. Even a Voyager episode suggested this. VGR "Death Wish" is the episode.