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What were the names of the First Officer, helmsman and CMO that were killed in the first episode? I haven't seen Caretaker for years and I forgot.

According to the official site:

First Officer: Lieutenant Commander Cavit

Helm: Lieutenant Stadi

CMO: doesn't say


Now I ask, why do you want to know?

Just curious. They were never mentioned after the first episode. I'd like to know how the entire damn medical staff could be killed so easily by exploding moniters.

Aya wrote:Just curious. They were never mentioned after the first episode. I'd like to know how the entire damn medical staff could be killed so easily by exploding moniters.

Well if they get even moderately hurt, nobody else can treat them. So they all die.

neoolong wrote:

Aya wrote:Just curious. They were never mentioned after the first episode. I'd like to know how the entire damn medical staff could be killed so easily by exploding moniters.

Well if they get even moderately hurt, nobody else can treat them. So they all die.

So no one has first aid training in the 24th century?

Isolder74 wrote:

neoolong wrote:

Aya wrote:Just curious. They were never mentioned after the first episode. I'd like to know how the entire damn medical staff could be killed so easily by exploding moniters.

Well if they get even moderately hurt, nobody else can treat them. So they all die.

So no one has first aid training in the 24th century?

Remember the TNG episode "Contagion" when one of Dr. Pulaski's own medics actually did not know what a splint was? Or when in "The Arsenal Of Freedom" when Beverly Crusher was hurt and had to talk Picard through basic first aid procedures?

Patrick Degan wrote:Remember the TNG episode "Contagion" when one of Dr. Pulaski's own medics actually did not know what a splint was? Or when in "The Arsenal Of Freedom" when Beverly Crusher was hurt and had to talk Picard through basic first aid procedures?

Too bad isn't it. A boy scout troop would make a better ship's crew than the Federation's own suppositally well trained crew. You would think a class in first aid would be required in a combat training program for any military academy

Isolder74 wrote:

Patrick Degan wrote:Remember the TNG episode "Contagion" when one of Dr. Pulaski's own medics actually did not know what a splint was? Or when in "The Arsenal Of Freedom" when Beverly Crusher was hurt and had to talk Picard through basic first aid procedures?

Too bad isn't it. A boy scout troop would make a better ship's crew than the Federation's own suppositally well trained crew. You would think a class in first aid would be required in a combat training program for any military academy

The Federationists appear to lack any awareness of basic survival in the real world. The episode "Darmok" showed that Picard couldn't even make fire. Pathetic.



And now, to commemorate this, my 1,701st post here at Stardestroyer.net:

Patrick Degan wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:Too bad isn't it. A boy scout troop would make a better ship's crew than the Federation's own suppositally well trained crew. You would think a class in first aid would be required in a combat training program for any military academy

The Federationists appear to lack any awareness of basic survival in the real world. The episode "Darmok" showed that Picard couldn't even make fire. Pathetic.

Exacally my point in the TOS Kirk could make gunpowder from scratch and McCoy could use bacis field medical technics without his gadgets availible. TNG Starfleet truely is incompitant.

So we know that somewhere between the TOS era and TNG, the average intelligence of SF officers dropped, greatly. Also, it appears as the entire medical profession has been regulated to showing people how to wave a bone meder and dermal regenerator.

so it appears that if they were properly trained they wouldn't have needed the EMh at all. As for that when did any combat ship ever only have one doctor on board an have no medics.

Isolder74 wrote:so it appears that if they were properly trained they wouldn't have needed the EMh at all. As for that when did any combat ship ever only have one doctor on board an have no medics.

Wasn't Voyager a science ship and not a combat ship?

At least primarily.

FFS, that thing in Contagen was one officer who I think was a hopeless science officer. We've seen many other times Starfleet officers being able to perform basic First Aid techniques such as splints, bandaging e.t.c. In fact in Contagin,

And Picard was TRYING to make a fire in Darmok. He was doing it right, its not like he had no clue what to do and was running around moaning 'oh woe is me'. It simply wasn't working well, though I think he was getting very close each time but it wouldn't catch.

As someone whos built fires and had to start them without any kind of helpful modern material, I cantell you its not an easy thing to do. Hell the planet may not have had the best materials growing localy.

I would very much hesitate to say Starfleet survival skills suck. In Final Mission Picard showed he had a reletivly good knowledge of such things. In Basics, the Voyager crew were managing without high technology (and with Janeway with their leader that says something).

neoolong wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:so it appears that if they were properly trained they wouldn't have needed the EMh at all. As for that when did any combat ship ever only have one doctor on board an have no medics.

Wasn't Voyager a science ship and not a combat ship?

At least primarily.

It is a Frigate chasing a Maquie ship into a hostile area. Since all Starfleet vessels could be justified as a science vessel but is still expected to serve in combat this doesn'r make sense. BTW even as a science vessel it should have had more than one doctor on board in order to be able to let the doctor do his R & R

Isolder74 wrote:so it appears that if they were properly trained they wouldn't have needed the EMh at all.

WTF?

The EHM is ment to be a SHORT TERM replacement Doctor for situations where the medical staff is overloaded or absent. Its skills go far beyond first aid, its a qualified doctor! Voyager left spacedock with a full medical staff. Some kind of massive explosion in sickbay in the pilot episode killed them all leaving them with just the EMH.

As for that when did any combat ship ever only have one doctor on board an have no medics.

FIrstly Voyager isn't a combat ship. Second the entire Medical staff was killed during the trip to the DQ. Other Starfleet combat starships have qualified medics. We hear La-Forge call for a Medic in ST9 when the warp core is blown and throws the E-E around like a toy. Or in 'Starship Down' in DS9 when Sisko is injured on the Bridge Kira gets a medic to treat him when Bashier is stuck in the turbolift with Dax.

Chris OFarrell wrote:FIrstly Voyager isn't a combat ship. Second the entire Medical staff was killed during the trip to the DQ. Other Starfleet combat starships have qualified medics. We hear La-Forge call for a Medic in ST9 when the warp core is blown and throws the E-E around like a toy. Or in 'Starship Down' in DS9 when Sisko is injured on the Bridge Kira gets a medic to treat him when Bashier is stuck in the turbolift with Dax.

And yet the Holodoc can use sickbay shortly afterwards with no problem. Fact sick bay is intact. Fact if sickbay is intact then how in the name of heaven did anyone get hurt in there.

And for that matter how could every medical personel be in sick bay or all in the same place anyway. the only way is if no one ever sleeps on a Federation Starship or they shut down the ship and park it somewhere when night comes around. A ship has to have shifts, how else can it operate 24/7 like it is suppost to?

Isolder74 wrote:
And yet the Holodoc can use sickbay shortly afterwards with no problem. Fact sick bay is intact. Fact if sickbay is intact then how in the name of heaven did anyone get hurt in there.

? Your line of reasoning is faulty as we KNOW everyone in Sickbay died. The fact that the sickbay is still mostly intact does not contradict this point. perhaps they were all standing by something that exploded or something, who knows. But the fact is that they WERE all killed. I can't remember the first episode of Voyager that well, its been years since I've seen it. But I think there was a major fire and damage to the half of the bay near the office, away from the biobeds.

And for that matter how could every medical personel be in sick bay or all in the same place anyway. the only way is if no one ever sleeps on a Federation Starship or they shut down the ship and park it somewhere when night comes around. A ship has to have shifts, how else can it operate 24/7 like it is suppost to?

Voyager apparently only had one doctor for whatever reason. Its possible that the trip to the Badlands to pick up Tuvok was only going to be a short term assignment and she didn;t have the full crew complement. In fact lots of things point to Voyager being rushed into service at least a few weeks ahead of schedule. She had to pause at DS9 to pick up some of the command staff like the Operations and Helm officers at least meaning she left spacedock without a full crew. The Aero-shuttle she was supposed to be equiped with apparently wasn't installed. She only carried a very light complement of Photon Torpedoes. And a relativly minor number of casulaties was going to make an enormous impact on the running of the ship. If it hadn't been for Chakotys crew, the ship would have been badly understaffed.

The working theory is that Tuvoks sting operation had suddenly moved into high gear to the point that Janeway/Starfleet had to move now, so they decided to launch the Voyager with a minimal crew and not wait for the final bits of work to be done.

Chris OFarrell wrote:FFS, that thing in Contagen was one officer who I think was a hopeless science officer. We've seen many other times Starfleet officers being able to perform basic First Aid techniques such as splints, bandaging e.t.c. In fact in Contagin,

Um nope, that was one of Pulaski's medics, not "some hopeless science officer".

And Picard was TRYING to make a fire in Darmok. He was doing it right, its not like he had no clue what to do and was running around moaning 'oh woe is me'. It simply wasn't working well, though I think he was getting very close each time but it wouldn't catch.

As someone whos built fires and had to start them without any kind of helpful modern material, I cantell you its not an easy thing to do. Hell the planet may not have had the best materials growing locally.

Funny how the alien captain had a good fire going, wasn't it?

I would very much hesitate to say Starfleet survival skills suck. In "Final Mission" Picard showed he had a reletivly good knowledge of such things.

If Picard were as knowledgeable as you insist, he'd have known that the best time to attempt a desert crossing is at night, when the blazing sun isn't overhead and bodily moisture will not be lost through physical exertion.

In "Basics," the Voyager crew were managing without high technology (and with Janeway with their leader that says something).

One or two days planetside is not an indicator of anything. They weren't down long enough for their survival skills to really undergo a substantive test.

Patrick Degan wrote: Um nope, that was one of Pulaski's medics, not "some hopeless science officer".

Conceaded, I had a memory of it being said somewhere that it wasn't a medical officer. But given that Palaski didn't have a problem ordering one and clearly expected the guy she was ordering to know what she was talking about appears to make that moron the exception, not the rule.

Funny how the alien captain had a good fire going, wasn't it?

Err yeah? We didn't see how he did so if you remember. We don't know if he had brought anything helpful or if he had been to the planet before and knew the best way/materials to make a fire. The fact is it wasn't as if Picard was a moron who didn't even get close, he appeared to be doing the correct things. He just wasn't having any luck as yet.

If Picard were as knowledgeable as you insist, he'd have known that the best time to attempt a desert crossing is at night, when the blazing sun isn't overhead and bodily moisture will not be lost through physical exertion.

That moon had a night? I had no indication that the moon was HAD any kind of fast rotation which is the reason they decided to set out for the mountains and shelter as soon as they did. With 55 degree mean heat, no local shelter, no water and no indication of a comming night you can either stay and roast or at least try out for shelter....

One or two days planetside is not an indicator of anything. They weren't down long enough for their survival skills to really undergo a substantive test.

But what we saw at least indicated they had the basics of them (which everyone is deriding as they don't have) like fire, construction of even primitive weapons systems e.t.c.

Chris OFarrell wrote:

Patrick Degan wrote: Um nope, that was one of Pulaski's medics, not "some hopeless science officer".

But given that Palaski didn't have a problem ordering one and clearly expected the guy she was ordering to know what she was talking about appears to make that moron the exception, not the rule.

Assuming facts not in evidence.

Funny how the alien captain had a good fire going, wasn't it?

Err yeah? We didn't see how he did so if you remember. We don't know if he had brought anything helpful or if he had been to the planet before and knew the best way/materials to make a fire.

Appeal to Ignorance fallacy. There is zero evidence that the alien was any better equipped than Picard other than having a pair of knives with him, and that really isn't a great advantage. Nor is there any support for the notion that he had visited the planet before and knew of "special" materials or methods to make and fuel a fire.

The fact is it wasn't as if Picard was a moron who didn't even get close, he appeared to be doing the correct things. He just wasn't having any luck as yet.

Picard did not even get so much as a spark going and simply gave up and resigned himself to shiver through the night.

If Picard were as knowledgeable as you insist, he'd have known that the best time to attempt a desert crossing is at night, when the blazing sun isn't overhead and bodily moisture will not be lost through physical exertion.

That moon had a night? I had no indication that the moon was HAD any kind of fast rotation which is the reason they decided to set out for the mountains and shelter as soon as they did. With 55 degree mean heat, no local shelter, no water and no indication of a comming night you can either stay and roast or at least try out for shelter....

If the moon had no siderial rotation period comparable to Earth normal, it would never have developed a viable biosphere in the first place and would have been utterly uninhabitable.

One or two days planetside is not an indicator of anything. They weren't down long enough for their survival skills to really undergo a substantive test.

But what we saw at least indicated they had the basics of them (which everyone is deriding as they don't have) like fire, construction of even primitive weapons systems e.t.c.

One of their own got himself stupidly eaten, and without native assistance at one point they'd have died.