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Why does not Voyger have any fleet battles like DS9 ? Did the producers run out of FX budget ?

Voyger battles tended to one to one engagements like TOS and TNG. Sometimes there would be two or three ships fighting Voyger, sometimes Voyger may even have an ally ship to help her. This proved very bad. I hated it when I saw Voyger go up against 3 2 KM long Kazon battleships. Though Voyger may have been more advanced three ships of that size should have overpowered her.

The worst was when Voyger fights the Borg. If Voyger led an entire fleet of allied ships on an attack on a single Cube that would have been OK. But to see Voyger go against Borg Cubes on her own is just too much to bear.

The Delta Flyer seems to suffer from the Defiant syndrome from DS9. DS9 got a new ship that was ridiculasly powerful for her size. Similarly Voyger too got a new shuttle that was way too powerful. How could a shuttle be so powerful ? Also how did a small scout ship like Voyger that has been lost in space for years find the technology and resources to build such a craft ?

Because you can't have a fleet battle with only one ship (or even two or three), bonehead...

Whoa, I'm in the ST forum

It's all because the series revolves around Tom Paris and Captain Janeway having children as guppies, not combat.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Because you can't have a fleet battle with only one ship (or even two or three), bonehead...

But could not Voyger introduce something like the Dominion War in Deep Space 9 ? They could have shown a war in delta quadrant and Voyger getting unwillingly involved.

Possible, but it wouldn't be the best thing to do from a dramatic point of view. They already had the Dominion War going on in DS9, and a similar war going on in VOY would have felt like nothing but a repetition. Besides, VOY already had the "stranded travelers trying to get home" theme.

evilcat4000 wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Because you can't have a fleet battle with only one ship (or even two or three), bonehead...

But could not Voyger introduce something like the Dominion War in Deep Space 9 ? They could have shown a war in delta quadrant and Voyger getting unwillingly involved.

They did, dumbass. Remember Species 8472? Short-ass war though, and wimp-ass Borg agreeing to *anything* Janeway proposed.

evilcat4000 wrote:But could not Voyger introduce something like the Dominion War in Deep Space 9 ? They could have shown a war in delta quadrant and Voyger getting unwillingly involved.

Voyager is a dead show. It can't introduce jack-shit anymore, and its writing staff were incompetent at doing single-episode drama; never mind umbrella storylines.

In one of the Voyager Novels that i read it did take part, abit unwillingly, in a fleet action of 300 off ships. I can't remember the name of the novel but i'm pretty sure i didn't dream it up.

evilcat4000 wrote:Why does not Voyger have any fleet battles like DS9 ? Did the producers run out of FX budget ?

Voyger battles tended to one to one engagements like TOS and TNG. Sometimes there would be two or three ships fighting Voyger, sometimes Voyger may even have an ally ship to help her. This proved very bad. I hated it when I saw Voyger go up against 3 2 KM long Kazon battleships. Though Voyger may have been more advanced three ships of that size should have overpowered her.

Using that logic a FED Starbase should be able to overpower an ISD.

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Using that logic a FED Starbase should be able to overpower an ISD.

I'd otherwise agree, KS, but just one of those ships kicked the dogshit out of VGR in the series premiere. The characters even talked about how nasty it was later on, in "The Voyager Conspiracy" I believe.

I don't remember the details, but the Kazon had the upper-hand until Chakotay used his Maquis ship to ram it. The Kazon then collided with the Caretaker Array, at which point I think VGR finally drove them off or destroyed them.

Aside: I knew the series was going to suck when the Kazon, who struggled to even get a fucking drink of water, were whipping up on Voyager so badly in the premiere. In my list of "Things Wrong With post-TOS Star Trek" I'd put "hero ship is out-classed by aliens" in the top 20 at least.

seanrobertson wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Using that logic a FED Starbase should be able to overpower an ISD.

I'd otherwise agree, KS, but just one of those ships kicked the dogshit out of VGR in the series premiere. The characters even talked about how nasty it was later on, in "The Voyager Conspiracy" I believe.

I don't remember the details, but the Kazon had the upper-hand until Chakotay used his Maquis ship to ram it. The Kazon then collided with the Caretaker Array, at which point I think VGR finally drove them off or destroyed them.

Aside: I knew the series was going to suck when the Kazon, who struggled to even get a fucking drink of water, were whipping up on Voyager so badly in the premiere. In my list of "Things Wrong With post-TOS Star Trek" I'd put "hero ship is out-classed by aliens" in the top 20 at least.

Very true, and I completely agree with your thoughts on Voyager. I was sitting there watching it thinking "umm okay start kicking some ass Voyager!" Waiting......waiting.....waiting.......sadly this is the pattern that Star Trek started to follow. Too much of the hero getting their ass kicked, and not kicking enough ass, without any tricks, leaves a foul taste in ones mouth.

I was SHOCKED when the federation FINALLY destroyed a geniune Romulan ship in VGR "Message in a Bottle"

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I was SHOCKED when the federation FINALLY destroyed a geniune Romulan ship in VGR "Message in a Bottle"

Was that the episode with the idiotic multi-part ship design that broke into pieces? The writers must have been big fans of Voltron.

Darth Wong wrote:Was that the episode with the idiotic multi-part ship design that broke into pieces? The writers must have been big fans of Voltron.

No no, Voltron was the other way around, lots of smaller roibots made one big one.

Darth Wong wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I was SHOCKED when the federation FINALLY destroyed a geniune Romulan ship in VGR "Message in a Bottle"

Was that the episode with the idiotic multi-part ship design that broke into pieces? The writers must have been big fans of Voltron.

Yes, it was that episode.

Lord Pounder wrote:In one of the Voyager Novels that i read it did take part, abit unwillingly, in a fleet action of 300 off ships. I can't remember the name of the novel but i'm pretty sure i didn't dream it up.

I tried to read that book but lost interest in the first few pages. The method that the people used to force Voyager and the other ships to fight for them was typical. They attached some sort of device to the hull of ships. The device would emit radiation, which would rise in level until it became lethal.

Using that logic a FED Starbase should be able to overpower an ISD.

A Star Destroyer is thousands of years ahead of Federation technology. This comparasion is therefore invalid.

I'd put "hero ship is out-classed by aliens" in the top 20 at least.

Agreed. Voyger was dealing with races a century behind the Federation, most did not even have transporters or replicators technology. Yet Janeway was outclassed each time.

I was SHOCKED when the federation FINALLY destroyed a geniune Romulan ship in VGR "Message in a Bottle"

That would be one of my favorite Star Trek episode. It was so much fun seeing an Akira and a Defiant and one other ship go up againsts three Romulan Warbirds in brutal combat. There was no question about morality whatsover. It was a pleasent surprise to Romulan Warbirds in Voyger and it was especialy good to see the Akira. I just wish if every Voyger episode was like that.

Was that the episode with the idiotic multi-part ship design that broke into pieces? The writers must have been big fans of Voltron.

I rather liked the Prometheus despite the whole idea behind the ship being totaly moronic.

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Darth Wong wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I was SHOCKED when the federation FINALLY destroyed a geniune Romulan ship in VGR "Message in a Bottle"

Was that the episode with the idiotic multi-part ship design that broke into pieces? The writers must have been big fans of Voltron.

Yes it was. Regardless of the idiocy involved in the design of the Prometheus, it was VERY refreshing to see UFP starships come in fighting instead of trying to politely ask the Romulans for their ship back.

evilcat4000 wrote:Using that logic a FED Starbase should be able to overpower an ISD.

A Star Destroyer is thousands of years ahead of Federation technology. This comparasion is therefore invalid.

The Kazon weren't exactly top contenders in the technology race. However, as Sean pointed out those large Kazon cruisers were overpowering Voyager.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes it was. Regardless of the idiocy involved in the design of the Prometheus, it was VERY refreshing to see UFP starships come in fighting instead of trying to politely ask the Romulans for their ship back.

Yep yep

If only we'd seen a few more shots of the battle though

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes it was. Regardless of the idiocy involved in the design of the Prometheus, it was VERY refreshing to see UFP starships come in fighting instead of trying to politely ask the Romulans for their ship back.

Yes, it's not like Picard ever went charging into the Neutral Zone intending to initiate a first-strike on a secret Romulan base.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes it was. Regardless of the idiocy involved in the design of the Prometheus, it was VERY refreshing to see UFP starships come in fighting instead of trying to politely ask the Romulans for their ship back.

Yes, it's not like Picard ever went charging into the Neutral Zone intending to initiate a first-strike on a secret Romulan base.

I didn't see Picard charge in firing......

Though I understand your sarcasm, it is unnecessary.

You do understand that it is typical for UFP, especially Picard, to turn the other cheek time and time again.

You can't fire at what isn't there.

Uraniun235 wrote:You can't fire at what isn't there.

Romulan Warbirds are cloaked so you have to find one fight it.

Uraniun235 wrote:You can't fire at what isn't there.

Having something there is not a requirement to just come in shooting.

By the way I wasn't being serious with "I didn't see Picard charge in firing...... " in my previous post, I just forgot to add the smile.

They did, dumbass. Remember Species 8472? Short-ass war though, and wimp-ass Borg agreeing to *anything* Janeway proposed.

These are one episode wars that no one remembers afterwards. Compared to that the Dominion War lasted throughout the DS9 series.

Having something there is not a requirement to just come in shooting.

To engage a Romulan Warbird you have to find one first. And that is not easy since Warbirds often stay cloaked.