I saw Nemesis last night...

[DocHorror]

Ow, ow, ow...I've seen bad things...

Okay, I thought it was terrible. No tension. Messy. The plot was junk. The Scimitar was pointy, thats about the only thing I could make out about it due to the annoying space scenes. Why no long glorious, epic flybys that give a sense of scale?

It homages (*cough*cough* rips off) a good few other flims, Star Wars, ST3...

No real point to the film. Too many b-stories instead of a good A-story.

B4? Don't get me started.

[Uraniun235]

I found the Scimitar very reminiscent of the Dominion and the Son'a battleships... and, to a small degree, the Negh'var.

[Kuja]

It homages (*cough*cough* rips off) a good few other flims, Star Wars, ST3...

And ST2.

[Darth Wong]

I found the Scimitar very reminiscent of the Dominion and the Son'a battleships... and, to a small degree, the Negh'var.

Starship design creativity is sorely lacking in Star Trek. All of their ships do sort of look the same after a while. They all tend to move toward a winged animal look.

Mind you, the Scimitar was hardly the worst thing about Nemesis. The utterly incomprehensible motives of Shinzon were what torpedoed the film and made it seem utterly pointless, like an exercise in cobbling cliched set-pieces together.

[consequences]

The movie lost me in the first five minutes when not a single Romulan Senator even attempted to escape their doom.

Would it have been horribly difficult for them to work in an additional 90 seconds showing Senators hitting communicators, only to find they they were jammed, run for the doors, only to discover that they were sealed, and engage emergency transport devices only to be reflected back into the chamber? As it was, the Romulan Senate looked like bigger morons than the GCS design team and safety board.

[HemlockGrey]

His name is 'Shinzon'. I think that sums up my biggest criticism of the film.

[Oberleutnant]

Mind you, the Scimitar was hardly the worst thing about Nemesis. The utterly incomprehensible motives of Shinzon were what torpedoed the film and made it seem utterly pointless, like an exercise in cobbling cliched set-pieces together.

Hello, my name is Shinzon. I am the freak result of an abandoned Romulan scheme to infiltrate Starfleet. I hate Romulans from the bottom of my heart because they exiled me to Remus and make my people suffer. That's why I'm going to kill everyone on Earth with my unneccessary complex technobabblish radiation weapon. I dress in black leather that creaks in a diabolical way, just to make sure the audience knows I'm baaad. Oh yeah, I have wet dreams about Counselor Troi.

[Peregrin Toker]

I found the Scimitar very reminiscent of the Dominion and the Son'a battleships... and, to a small degree, the Negh'var.

Starship design creativity is sorely lacking in Star Trek. All of their ships do sort of look the same after a while. They all tend to move toward a winged animal look.

This is something I find rather puzzling. If the the Klingon and Romulan Empires are so different, not to mention their hatred for each other, then why do both of them use green spaceships designed to resemble gigantic birds??

[Typhonis 1]

Laziness on the part of the Writers?? I mean why not give the Klingons red tinted ships after all there interior screen are red, the lighting is red tinted,, why not red tinted ships???

[Gil Hamilton]

My first thought when I saw Shinzon wasn't one of shock or suprise or anything like that but rather "Man, he must use ALOT of talcum powder if he wears that all the time." That's probably why he's evil. Not because he's a rejected clone struggling to find an identity or that he was thrown in a forced labour camp with a bunch of vampire wannabes, but because he's been chaffed raw by that outfit and it's made him really irritable.

[Stravo]

Keep in mind in regard to the Klingon Rommie sameness that the BOP in ST:III was originally an upgraded Romulan War Bird and that the Romulans were going to be the villains, then it evolved to Kruge stealing a Romulan ship to finally Kruge simply being the commander and none of the writers changing the fact that it was a Bird of Prey.

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

[Isolder74]

Keep in mind in regard to the Klingon Rommie sameness that the BOP in ST:III was originally an upgraded Romulan War Bird and that the Romulans were going to be the villains, then it evolved to Kruge stealing a Romulan ship to finally Kruge simply being the commander and none of the writers changing the fact that it was a Bird of Prey.

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

But at the time the Klingons and the Romulons were allies so it would seem proper that they might have colaborated on the design. Its the TNG writters who srcewed it up when they painted the D'Deririx class warbird the same way and colors instead of painting it like the old TOS rommie warbird. I think it would have looked much better with that paint scheme.

[Lord Poe]

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

Actually, it has its roots in TOS, specifically, "The Enterprise Incident"

It was discovered that the Klingons and Romulans were sharing technology, and the Romulans in that episode used Klingon D-7 cruisers.

[Drooling Iguana]

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

Actually, it has its roots in TOS, specifically, "The Enterprise Incident"

It was discovered that the Klingons and Romulans were sharing technology, and the Romulans in that episode used Klingon D-7 cruisers.

From what I've heard, the old Romulan ship model from Balance of Terror was stolen and they didn't have time to build a new one, so they just used their Klingon ship model and added a throw-away line to explain it.

Things just went downhill from there.

[Peregrin Toker]

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

Actually, it has its roots in TOS, specifically, "The Enterprise Incident"

It was discovered that the Klingons and Romulans were sharing technology, and the Romulans in that episode used Klingon D-7 cruisers.

Yeah - but prior to the Klingon-Romulan alliance was disbanded, then wouldn't the Klingons and Romulans start changing their ship designs into more unique directions?

Things just went downhill from there.

However, "The Enterprise Incident" wasn't that bad an episode. (although you are right that some of the 3rd season TOS episodes were quite weird)

[Death from the Sea]

It was discovered that the Klingons and Romulans were sharing technology, and the Romulans in that episode used Klingon D-7 cruisers.

From what I've heard, the old Romulan ship model from Balance of Terror was stolen and they didn't have time to build a new one, so they just used their Klingon ship model and added a throw-away line to explain it.

Things just went downhill from there.[/quote]
Wasn't one of the things the Romulans shared with the Klingons the cloaking device? If so, how do B&B explain the Klingons having a cloak in Enterprise?

[Chris OFarrell]

Wait, you want B&B to explain a continunity breach in Enterprise?

[Gil Hamilton]

Wait, you want B&B to explain a continunity breach in Enterprise?

Their message board spokesman, Ladiesman, should do it. "There is no continuity breach. It is a figment of the imagination of anti-Trek freaks. Continuity breaches are commiting suicide by the thousands on the walls of Enterprise...."

[seanrobertson]

Wasn't one of the things the Romulans shared with the Klingons the cloaking device? If so, how do B&B explain the Klingons having a cloak in Enterprise?

Death,

The Klingons haven't used cloaks in ENT, but the Romulans did in "Minefield."

Speaking of what I loosely refer to that show's "continuity," the look of retro Rom. Birds-of-Prey is a potential screw-up itself: they're seaweed green and have nacelles almost identical to a Jem'Hadar battlecruiser's.

Green is okay, and overall, the ships are pretty neat-looking...but Jem'Hadar nacelles? WTF?

[greenmm]

Actually, I think green or any other colors beyond bare hull or white/cream would be bad for both Klingon and Romulan ships.

I mean, really: the TOS Klingon and Romulan ships had the same basic hull color as the E-nil did, with the Romulans adding the Bird of Prey on their belly. They didn't have dark green Klingon ships until ST3, and they didn't have dark green Romulan ships until TNG.

Oh, wait, that's right: we're talking continuity here, and B&B ignore it whenever the hell they want to.

[Darth Servo]

Mind you, the Scimitar was hardly the worst thing about Nemesis. The utterly incomprehensible motives of Shinzon were what torpedoed the film and made it seem utterly pointless, like an exercise in cobbling cliched set-pieces together.

So will we be getting your official review of the film any time soon or is it just not worth it.

[Ghost Rider]

Mind you, the Scimitar was hardly the worst thing about Nemesis. The utterly incomprehensible motives of Shinzon were what torpedoed the film and made it seem utterly pointless, like an exercise in cobbling cliched set-pieces together.

So will we be getting your official review of the film any time soon or is it just not worth it.

Here ya go

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=21789

[Drooling Iguana]

However, "The Enterprise Incident" wasn't that bad an episode. (although you are right that some of the 3rd season TOS episodes were quite weird)

Compated to "Balance of Terror" it was crap.

But then again, compared to "Balance of Terror" pretty much all Trek is crap.

Wasn't one of the things the Romulans shared with the Klingons the cloaking device? If so, how do B&B explain the Klingons having a cloak in Enterprise?

I've seen every episode of Enterprise so far, and I don't recall a single incident of a Klingon ship cloaking. Care to provide an example of some sort?

[Darth Servo]

Here ya go

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=21789

Thanks. Saw it already though. I was talking about a new web page like he has for ST:I, TPM and AOTC, complete with technical evaluations.

[seanrobertson]

Actually, I think green or any other colors beyond bare hull or white/cream would be bad for both Klingon and Romulan ships.

I mean, really: the TOS Klingon and Romulan ships had the same basic hull color as the E-nil did, with the Romulans adding the Bird of Prey on their belly. They didn't have dark green Klingon ships until ST3, and they didn't have dark green Romulan ships until TNG.

Oh, wait, that's right: we're talking continuity here, and B&B ignore it whenever the hell they want to.

Yep. Whoops! Heh.

Seriously, I don't have a problem with the green, Green

I should admit beforehand, I'm biased because I'm a pretty serious modeler; I've worked hard to come up with the exact ratios of X brand paints to match Y model as depicted onscreen, to match the studio model, you name it. After investing all that time researching tedious details, I don't want my work to be in vain.

...But:

I don't think going from grays to more varied colors need constitute a continuity breach. We never saw much of the Klingon or Romulan fleets in TOS, for one thing. Plus, modern militaries have certainly come up with different color schemes for their own aircraft, armor, etc. (That's environmentally dependent, I concede. And the fact remains, perhaps the best analogue for Trek ships, naval vessels, don't have apple-green armor plating just for the sake thereof. They're fairly uniform.)

I also think that if, say, the Valdore-type suddenly appeared gray as a throwback to the TOS ship, we'd simply face a more recent continuity breach: TNG Warbirds are bright, almost luminescent, green on TV. Why start coloring your ships as you did 100+ years ago? Why not go with the more recent trend?

For that matter, some don't like that Klingons and Romulans both now have green ships. While that's a bit dorky, would gray Klingons and Romulans be better, keeping in mind that the Federation uses gray itself? Everyone would have gray ships; that's worse than only two groups using similar, if not identical, colors.

Even if all this did somehow trample on continuity, I think it quickly becomes an issue of blandness.

Simply, gray can be boring to look at outside of a super-detailed Star Destroyer model. Building and painting such things is worse yet, especially when there's not much to otherwise grab your interest; e.g., as is the case with the detail-averse TOS RBoP or the smoothish D7.

I suppose one might still find some ships compelling even if their base colors were identical; however, that requires that the alien ships' designs are sufficiently different from one another to "grab" your eye.

The current alien lot oftentimes don't have that luxury. Many of them are built very much the same, like the Jem'Hadar/Son'a/Reman capships. They almost have to adopt a funky color scheme to stand out. (Ironically, those races go for the dull gray stuff, too, so their boring look is all the worse. Only the Jem'Hadar throw in some tan and purplish panels.)