Did the E-D really do that badly in GEN?

[TurboPhaser]

Before you say anything, I know that the E-D coulda won just by chucking a load of torps at the BOP, but thats not my point.

I'm talking about the damage it received in the battle. Now, when you compare GEN's performance against the rest of TNG, the Enterprise did reasonably well (despite the fact that it exploded)

My reasons for this is so:

- Despite the large amount of hull damage, the Enterprise's shields remained functional throughout the battle. As we know from TNG, it doesnt take much physical damage to badly hurt the Enterprise.

-Enterprise's phasers and torpedoes stayed online. Again, we know from TNG, it does not take much to knock out the weapons systems.

Now that I think about this, dont you find it odd that huge hull damage seems to affect the E-D's critical systems less than shield damage did in TNG?

[Sea Skimmer]

The E-D was only even hit a couple times with its slow right turn providing ample evasive action aginst several centuries more advanced sensors and weapons at close range.

Before you can start making any comparisons you'd need to figure out how many times each ship was struck on the occasions you want to compare and preferably where it was hit as well.

[Stravo]

Sorry but I could never get past the 'alter the frequency of a FUCKING TORPEDO!!!!' bullshit of that battle.

[Alyeska]

I detailed this back on SB at one point. It would seem by this point the E-D has recieved some upgrades that improved its endurance. This is supported by the new bridge module that we know was installed. The E-D did infact sustain higher levels of damage before having major problems. Furthermore its systems survived for the most part. However, the warp core still had major problems of its own. While certainly better then past performances, the E-D was far from War GCS level.

[Alyeska]

Sorry but I could never get past the 'alter the frequency of a FUCKING TORPEDO!!!!' bullshit of that battle.

Seeing as you don't actualy know how torpedoes work, this complaint is meaningless.

[Alyeska]

The E-D was only even hit a couple times with its slow right turn providing ample evasive action aginst several centuries more advanced sensors and weapons at close range.

Before you can start making any comparisons you'd need to figure out how many times each ship was struck on the occasions you want to compare and preferably where it was hit as well.

You get some interesting views on the damage the E-D sustained when the saucer seperates. From what I can tell the E-D took at least two torpedo hits directly on the hull as well as upwards of a dozen disrupter hits. This in itself is quite impressive. We know the hull of the ship is far weaker then the shields. It is entirely possible the E-D could have taken on three BoPs and won (provided Riker actualy shot back).

The thing that pissed me off the most about the battle is the complete lack of fighting Riker did. He should have crushed that BoP in his opening volley. A clean half dozen torpedoes and phaser strikes would have destroyed the BoP easily.

[Stravo]

Sorry but I could never get past the 'alter the frequency of a FUCKING TORPEDO!!!!' bullshit of that battle.

Seeing as you don't actualy know how torpedoes work, this complaint is meaningless.

Seeing as you have never seen a torpedo's frequency altered before or since that battle can you point to me where that criticism is wrong??

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

It's entirely possible that Trek torps have shields. That would explain the glow they always seem to have, and the frequency-altering technique.

[Alyeska]

Sorry but I could never get past the 'alter the frequency of a FUCKING TORPEDO!!!!' bullshit of that battle.

Seeing as you don't actualy know how torpedoes work, this complaint is meaningless.

Seeing as you have never seen a torpedo's frequency altered before or since that battle can you point to me where that criticism is wrong??

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

Oh, right. I didn't see that episode.

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

Oh, right. I didn't see that episode.

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

READ THE FAQ IN THE ANOUCEMENT FORUM

[Tribun]

In any competent military, Riker would have been thrown out because of incompetence. The Enterprise fires one lousy shot against the BoP, not even enough to scratch thier shields. The simple command:
"All weapons fire!"
would have solved the Duras problem in seconds. But no. They no even use the aft launcher, when the FLEE!!! from the BoP!
How did Rike become Commander in the first place?!

[Lord Pounder]

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

We have a little something in VI that might suit you sir. Cowardly Bastard might also match you style.

[Stormbringer]

How did Rike become Commander in the first place?!

Tactical imcomptence probably isn't the hinderance it would be in a real navy. The Federation simply considers fighting a bad thing and obviously doesn't spend too much time training it's people. Riker probably meets the minimums and that's all they care about.

[Isolder74]

The Enterprise may have performed better but its crew failed miserably! Only fire one shot and then running away...what was Riker and the man running tacticle thinking. Some one just fired on my shiip I should blow them to smitherins. Good Grief, this was a gunboat vs a battleship!

[Lord Pounder]

The fact of the matter is the Enterprise was defeated by an 80yo BoP. The Duras sisters where flying something rescued from a scrap yard. In out terms it's the equivilant of a rifleman in a hotair balloon beatting an Apache gunship.

[Chris OFarrell]

Sorry but I could never get past the 'alter the frequency of a FUCKING TORPEDO!!!!' bullshit of that battle.

Seeing as you don't actualy know how torpedoes work, this complaint is meaningless.

Seeing as you have never seen a torpedo's frequency altered before or since that battle can you point to me where that criticism is wrong??

Firstly even if we never did see this, your complaint wouldn't mean anything as it clearly DID happen. But we have seen it happen a few times. The most recent time I can think of is Equinox Part II in Voyager when they used the evil EMH sendign them Voyagers shield frequency to adjust their torpedoes frequency to penetrate the shield.

[Uraniun235]

In any competent military, Riker would have been thrown out because of incompetence. The Enterprise fires one lousy shot against the BoP, not even enough to scratch thier shields. The simple command:
"All weapons fire!"
would have solved the Duras problem in seconds. But no. They no even use the aft launcher, when the FLEE!!! from the BoP!
How did Rike become Commander in the first place?!

GEN isn't even consistent with the TV series in this regard... "The Survivors" shows us a real opening volley, (as ordered by Riker, "Lt. Word, fire phasers on full with a simultaneous spread of torpedos.") with a half-dozen torpedos and three main phaser strikes in scant seconds. After the first volley is shot and a few seconds pass, Riker orders "Commence rapid fire with all weapons on full!" and multiple phaser arrays fire on the target (as evidenced by differing origin points and a fire rate that seems too high for just the dorsal saucer array) as well as another six photon torpedos before the Husnock ship disables E-D's weapons.

Riker ordered both of these high-intensity barrages (the most impressive display of GCS firepower I've ever seen), so we can either blame it on some obscure and inane in-context excuse, or we can accept that the writers of Generations just really sucked.

The fact of the matter is the Enterprise was defeated by an 80yo BoP. The Duras sisters where flying something rescued from a scrap yard. In out terms it's the equivilant of a rifleman in a hotair balloon beatting an Apache gunship.

It was NOT an 80 year old BoP, despite that the detonation visuals were ripped directly and blatantly from Star Trek VI. It was an older model, but it was certainly not that old. And even if it were, it would be highly unlikely that it had not been upgraded since it's commissioning.

And I think a closer analogy would be an old turn-of-the-century frigate beating an Iowa-class BB after the Reagan-era upgrades.

The Enterprise may have performed better but its crew failed miserably!

The people on the bridge failed miserably. Frankly, I can't believe Riker's first choice was impulse manuevering... trying to evade a light scout ship in a ship over half a km long and massing over 4 million tons... christ, talk about not using the strengths of your ship to your advantage. Hell, what about the warp manuevering the E-D pulled off in Peak Performance? At least that'd give them enough time to pull themselves together...

[Alyeska]

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

Oh, right. I didn't see that episode.

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

I got this title through a variety of actions on my part. I am a rational and logical debater. I am a known and respected Trek supporter. I am a Super Moderator and started as the PST mod. I typicaly have a theme to my accounts and given my position here I felt it would be smart to use a Trek themed account. So I put up a poll asking people which title sounded best and Federation Ambassador was choosen. Mike was kind enough to give it to me.

You on the other hand would likely get a Village Idiot title because of your scitizo personality.

[Sektor31]

How did Rike become Commander in the first place?!

As mentioned before, in other eps Riker has been shown to be competent. I guess he's only as good as the scriptwriters make him.

Anyway, at times it seems that he gets a bit hot-headed, he acts on impulse alot.

[Sea Skimmer]

As mentioned before, in other eps Riker has been shown to be competent. I guess he's only as good as the scriptwriters make him.

Anyway, at times it seems that he gets a bit hot-headed, he acts on impulse alot.

When most people act on impulse in combat they tend too shoot a whole lot. Riker's the opposite "One shot failed, our huge arsenal is powerless!"

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

Oh, right. I didn't see that episode.

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

Bah, for somebody who's been here an entire year, you sure don't read the Announcements forum a lot. You're about 1800 posts short of being able to even request a custom title. And you're stuck with "Youngling" until you get enough posts to become a "Padawan Learner." As others have said, read the FAQ.

[Ender]

We already have a canon statement of torpedoes having their own shielding systems. Refer to TNG "Half a Life"

Oh, right. I didn't see that episode.

Hey Alyska: How'd you get your designation as "Federation Ambassador?"

I don't particulary like "Youngling", myself. I know I have to have 500 posts, but do you get to choose your desig?

Well hey, if it isn't the Ambigiously Gay Uno. I thought you had actually shown yourself posessing enough intergity to keep your word for once and really did run off sobbing like the little bitch you are.

[Howedar]

Do we have any goddamn clue why nobody bothered to change the shield frequency?

[Isolder74]

Do we have any goddamn clue why nobody bothered to change the shield frequency?

Because it may be set in stone. Which makes the defeat even worse in regards of design.