'Booby Trap' confusion.

[TurboPhaser]

I was reading the canon Trek section of SD.net, when i came across this bit on the TNG ep 'Booby Trap':

PICARD: Number One... make sure the booby trap won't bother anyone again.
RIKER: Mister Worf, ready photon torpedoes, all bays... set to detonate upon impact with the Promellian vessel.

Misc: Captain Picard had thought the Promellian battlecruiser such a wondrous archaeological find that he'd already sent a retrieval notification to the Smithsonian.

Now, after travelling for about a minute at 100-200 m/s, they have no choice but to destroy this historical treasure in order to keep others from falling into the trap. But why couldn't they simply tractor it out? They're less than 10 k away! The most reasonable explanation is that they were out of tractor beam range.

Also note that the Enterprise fired from all its forward-facing torpedo bays, and the result was just four torpedoes. The resulting explosion was described in the screenplay as spectacularly violent, obliterating much of the asteroid field itself, but in the televised episode, we saw nothing of the sort. The explosion was unspectacular, and didn't even completely obscure the Promellian battle cruiser's hull, as seen below:



It took all four torpedoes just to destroy the derelict ship's inert hull, and the surrounding asteroids weren't even scratched.

Note: screenshot courtesy of Wayne Poe.

Forgive me, but I am confused. Moments after that shot was taken, the explosion did obscure the Promellian hull, and obscured the whole screen.

And, only 1 torpedo hit the Promellian Battle Cruiser. The other 3 hit the nearby asteroids. That at least is an error in the otherwise flawless SD.Net Database.

And as for the tractor beam, perhaps all the rocks floating about would have made it tricky to move the Promellian ship through without smashing it.

What do ya all think?

[Darth Wong]

Forgive me, but I am confused. Moments after that shot was taken, the explosion did obscure the Promellian hull, and obscured the whole screen.

Hate to break it to you, but an explosion which takes place moments AFTER this blast must not come from the torp itself, but rather, from something cooking off inside the cruiser.

And, only 1 torpedo hit the Promellian Battle Cruiser. The other 3 hit the nearby asteroids. That at least is an error in the otherwise flawless SD.Net Database.

They missed with 3 out of 4 shots?!?!?

And as for the tractor beam, perhaps all the rocks floating about would have made it tricky to move the Promellian ship through without smashing it.

They were able to move the much larger E-D out of the field without hitting anything, and you could see that the asteroid density was nowhere near high enough to present such problems.

[TurboPhaser]

Hate to break it to you, but an explosion which takes place moments AFTER this blast must not come from the torp itself, but rather, from something cooking off inside the cruiser.

Cooking off? Such as?

That ship seemed totally dead to me.

They missed with 3 out of 4 shots?!?!?

Not really relevant. I'm just pointing out that the database makes it sound like all 4 torps hit the Promellian ship, they did not.

They were able to move the much larger E-D out of the field without hitting anything, and you could see that the asteroid density was nowhere near high enough to present such problems.

IIRC, the Enterprise'd deflector dish was functioning. Obviously not at full capacity, thats why they had to avoid big rocks. Granted, the dialouge said 'all systems' with the 2 exceptions mentioned were taken offline, but the deflector was illimunated, and from what we know of the deflector, when its lit, its operating.

[Warspite]

Hate to break it to you, but an explosion which takes place moments AFTER this blast must not come from the torp itself, but rather, from something cooking off inside the cruiser.

Cooking off? Such as?

That ship seemed totally dead to me.

A lump of coal seems dead too, and what happens when you light it up?

[Lord Poe]

They missed with 3 out of 4 shots?!?!?

They sure did. I think I pointed that out to you once before. Also, note that Riker said "all bays" yet the rear torpedo launcer was not used. Why? When does they crew get to interpret a command from what Riker MEANT from what he SAID?

They were able to move the much larger E-D out of the field without hitting anything, and you could see that the asteroid density was nowhere near high enough to present such problems.

Right. And why COULDN'T they blast a few asteroids out of the way? Didn't have enough torpedoes I guess...

[Col. Crackpot]

They missed with 3 out of 4 shots?!?!?

They sure did. I think I pointed that out to you once before. Also, note that Riker said "all bays" yet the rear torpedo launcer was not used. Why? When does they crew get to interpret a command from what Riker MEANT from what he SAID?

They were able to move the much larger E-D out of the field without hitting anything, and you could see that the asteroid density was nowhere near high enough to present such problems.

Right. And why COULDN'T they blast a few asteroids out of the way? Didn't have enough torpedoes I guess...

The E-D is equipped with type-4 burst fire torp launchers.....those are MIRV torpedoes. Perhaps the reason we only see 4 torpedoes is that the torpedoes don't mirv and all 4 torpedoes in each of the 4 shots explose as one.

[Howedar]

Thats not how it works. As seen in TNG, a full spread of torpedos from a GCS's foreward launcher is at least 5 torpedos, which begin to separate from each other as soon as they are fired.

[Joe Momma]

They were able to move the much larger E-D out of the field without hitting anything, and you could see that the asteroid density was nowhere near high enough to present such problems.

Right. And why COULDN'T they blast a few asteroids out of the way? Didn't have enough torpedoes I guess...

Or move the asteroids out the way with the same tractor beams that they were going to use to move the ship. Or just put up a warning buoy and send out a dedicated retrieval team; seeing as it had only apparently captured one ship in a thousand years, we're not talking about a serious threat to intergalactic travel.

Here's another Booby Trap database note while we're kicking it around:

Propulsion: Geordi claims that the Enterprise has tens of thousands of light years on it. In actuality it has far more than that; Q and the Traveller combined to give it many millions of light years. But it's doubtful that Geordi was trying to give her an accurate figure, and he's not exactly calm and rational; he's highly agitated and defensive.

I'd just like to add that Geordi might also be counting it in terms of distance travelled by the Enterprise under its own power. If I put my car on a truck and shipped it across the country, those miles wouldn't be added to my car's milometer.

-- Joe Momma

[seanrobertson]

They missed with 3 out of 4 shots?!?!?

IIRC, Dark One, those three were supposed to destroy the "aceton assimilators."

I can't remember why they didn't do this until they were fleeing the scene, though. The AAs posed some kind of problem from the outset, didn't they?

*shrugs*

[Lord Poe]

IIRC, Dark One, those three were supposed to destroy the "aceton assimilators."

That doesn't wash with what's onscreen:

RIKER: Mister Worf, ready photon torpedoes, all bays... set to detonate upon impact with the Promellian vessel.

[seanrobertson]

IIRC, Dark One, those three were supposed to destroy the "aceton assimilators."

That doesn't wash with what's onscreen:

RIKER: Mister Worf, ready photon torpedoes, all bays... set to detonate upon impact with the Promellian vessel.

The trouble with that is this, immediately before Riker gives the order to fire on the Promellian ship, Picard orders him:

Number One... make sure the booby
trap won't bother anyone again.

The Promellian vessel alone was not the booby trap, because it didn't "eat energy for breakfast":


GEORDI: Somehow, we have to generate
enough energy to get out of
here... but we've got a
booby-trap that eats energy for
breakfast... how do we fool it,
block it, shut it down,
anything...

We know the aceton assimilators were on asteroids, and we saw three photorps hit as many asteroids. They were part of the "booby trap," and Picard said, "get rid of the booby trap," so I imagine they were targetted as well.

I don't think Riker's statement need stand in contradiction to what we see. We have to rationalize a bit, but it doesn't require any big stretches really..."All torpedo bays" is simply excitement talking, for example. And Riker's order to destroy the battlecruiser is likely an addendum to the implicit understanding that the aceton devices must be destroyed as well. (Initially, the crew did, after all, want to leave the Promellian ship alone; but throughout much of the episode, the danger of those AAs was known only too well .)

Looking over the script, I still don't understand why they couldn't have just blown the AAs up almost immediately. I must've missed something.

[TurboPhaser]

Yes, the phasers didnt work cause they are an energy beam connected to the ship. The photon's would have worked while still inside the trap because the torp's would be independent from the ship once fired.

And they are an explosive weapon, not an energy weapon.

[Lord Poe]

That still doesn't wash. The thing that made the Booby Trap what it was is the ship in the middle of an asteroid field, sorta like a piece of cheese. If you get rid of the ship, there's no more reason to venture into the middle of the trap.

[Robert Walper]

That still doesn't wash. The thing that made the Booby Trap what it was is the ship in the middle of an asteroid field, sorta like a piece of cheese. If you get rid of the ship, there's no more reason to venture into the middle of the trap.

Incorrect. That ship was caught by the very trap we are talking about, it wasn't part of it. It was just a victim of a very old war. A minefield doesn't need something interesting to look at to be effective. The asteroid belt was just a piece of space within a war zone, therefore a "trap" of sorts was set to get enemy ships, and it got at least one.

[Uraniun235]

That still doesn't wash. The thing that made the Booby Trap what it was is the ship in the middle of an asteroid field, sorta like a piece of cheese. If you get rid of the ship, there's no more reason to venture into the middle of the trap.

But the trap is still there. If there's a minefield in the sea surrounding an old battleship, does it really suffice to simply sink the battleship and assume nobody will go in there again?

What if miners decided to try and go prospecting in the asteroid field? They'd be caught by the trap. It's a safety hazard and it's prudent to remove the hazard to make sure nobody is ever caught by the trap again.

[Ted C]

The ending of "Booby Trap" was pure stupidity, whether they were shooting at the ship or the asteroids.

The Enterprise had already demonstrated that it was possible to escape the trap without great difficulty (although it took them forever to come up with the extremely simple solution). They had an immensely valuable archaeological find both in the Promellian cruiser and the booby trap itself. A sensible captain would have notified Starfleet of the situation and set a bunch of warning beacons around the asteroid field to keep people away until the dedicated research ship arrived.

Idiots.

[Lord Poe]

I'm stil not sold, guys. Since when does the crew get to interpret an order? Riker said to target the SHIP.

Note in ST2:TWOK, Kirk was nervous about Saavik taking the center seat to guide the ship out of drydock. From this we infer that if Saavik doesn't give Sulu the proper commands, he will slam the ship into the drydock.