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A Klingon Neghvar has engaged a pre war Federation GCS. Who wins.

In my opinion the Neghvar wins. The Neghvar carries two very powerful disruptor cannons that will destroy the Galaxy easily. Those cannnons were able to damage a station like DS9 so there is no reason to believe that a Galaxy will survive a hit from them.

Shield strength is unknown but must be quite strong for a ship so powerful. In "Endgame" Janeway did not even try using the transphasic torpedoes carried by her shuttle against two Neghvars that attacked her. Given how transphasic torpedoes can easily destroy Borg cubes the Neghvar must have some serious shielding. However this episode took place in the future so the Neghvar would have had vastly upgraded systems. Still Neghvars seem to be more powerful ships than Galaxies.

evilcat4000 wrote:
In my opinion the Neghvar wins. The Neghvar carries two very powerful disruptor cannons that will destroy the Galaxy easily. Those cannnons were able to damage a station like DS9 so there is no reason to believe that a Galaxy will survive a hit from them.

You seem to have missed the fact that DS9 was being hit by dozens more likely hundreds of other shots and had been rammed by one smaller Klingon vessel before hand. The station had already been greatly weakened.

I doubt they were Negh'Vars that attacked future Janeway. Or at least they were packing their own uber weapons and were thus a big threat to her.

Could someone remind me, was the Neghvah model used in All Good Things? Or was that just some generic model?

Yup, the the ships in "All Good Things" were slightly modified Negh'Vars. They also appeared in "Endgame", again with a different look. So we have three different Negh'Var variants, all of them with almost identical appearance.

Eh...not sure on this one. The Klingon ships are more geared towards war, so I think that if the Feds could stay out of the forward firing arc, it's possible to take the Negh'var down. But if not, I'd give it to the Klingons.

evilcat4000 wrote:A Klingon Neghvar has engaged a pre war Federation GCS. Who wins.

The Klingon ship easily destroys the Galaxy class ship since it is NOT a war-mod Galaxy. A war-mod Galaxy would be a better or more even match I think.

The Negh'Var should win easily. Two to three BoP could defeat the E-D, and the Negh'Var is much more voluminous and presumably massive than those little things.

Unless the Galaxy class can pull off the moves the mirror-verse Defiant did to close in with the Neghvar and stay in its blind spots, it's fucked. No GCS I've seen has demonstrated that level of speed and maneuverability, and I doubt it has the shields or firepower needed to slug it out with a Neghvar.

aerius wrote:Unless the Galaxy class can pull off the moves the mirror-verse Defiant did to close in with the Neghvar and stay in its blind spots, it's fucked. No GCS I've seen has demonstrated that level of speed and maneuverability, and I doubt it has the shields or firepower needed to slug it out with a Neghvar.

Agreed. That Alliance Negh'Var was several kilometers long. (The art department actually had to build more detailed sections to film because the model itself wasn't meant to be seen from a couple of inches away at that angle ) So the D would've been able to "hug" her far more easily than she could the 680m long version.

If a Negh'Var "only" had a Warbird's firepower, the GCS is comfortably outgunned ("Tin Man"...6-7 disruptor pulses dropped the E-D's shields by 70% in a matter of 3-4 seconds).

Klingon ships are pretty well-shielded...perhaps not quite to the extent similar Starfleet ships are. But we do know a K'Vort battlecruiser could take a 5 torpedo spread in "Yesterday's Enterprise."

And it's rare that a GCS unloads quite like that. I only recall similar torpedo fire, plus lots of phasers shooting, in a handful of episodes ("Survivors," "Best of Both Worlds," a 5 torpedo spread in "Arsenal of Freedom" but with minimal phaser fire).

The Negh'Var should kill the GCS well before she herself is crippled. I actually think the "War Galaxy" upgrades wouldn't make up the difference, either, since I've long held that a doubling of shield output is HEFTY. Perhaps with quantum torpedoes a so-called War GCS could win, but since we've never seen them use qtorps it's kind of a moot point.

[EDIT: Aerius, who's that beautiful woman in your avatar? She's enchanting. I love pretty redheads!]

Even War Galaxies could not take on a Negh'Var. The Galaxy looses big time. The only way for the Galaxy to break even is if it carried a flight of Tactical-Fighters. A clean dozen would be more then enough to cripple a Negh'Var. Combined with any level of Galaxy (excluding Galaxy-X) the battle would be a stalemate. As it is a Negh'Var can destroy any model of Galaxy (excluding Galaxy-X)

A better match for the Negh'Var would probably be a Soveriegn, and a better match for a Galaxy would likely be a Vor'cha. Galaxy against Negh'var would be something like a Constitution vs. Excelsior.

Negh'var wins.

seanrobertson wrote:[EDIT: Aerius, who's that beautiful woman in your avatar? She's enchanting. I love pretty redheads!]

That would be Tori Amos, my fave piano singer babe.

Back to the question, what if the GCS did a saucer separation. Would the drive section then be fast enough to do what the Defiant did? Or perhaps ram the Neghvar with one of the section after separation, would that be enough to take out the Klingon ship?

aerius wrote:

seanrobertson wrote:[EDIT: Aerius, who's that beautiful woman in your avatar? She's enchanting. I love pretty redheads!]

That would be Tori Amos, my fave piano singer babe.

Back to the question, what if the GCS did a saucer separation. Would the drive section then be fast enough to do what the Defiant did? Or perhaps ram the Neghvar with one of the section after separation, would that be enough to take out the Klingon ship?

Tori Amos? Wow. Cool.

WRT the GCS's saucer, I don't think the stardrive section would be fast or small enough to pull a Mirror Defiant.

I don't have the specs on-hand, but the stardrive section is still pretty large...a couple of hundred meters long, I guess. The D was 120m or less, and somewhat overpowered for her size. The E-D's engineering section supposedly needed the saucer's fusion reactors in a heated battle.

Plus, "our" Negh'Var is just a bit over 680m long and 470m wide. The stardrive would cross it very rapidly in a tight strafing run.

But I think the ramming idea is good. Ram the thing with the saucer section, and if anything's left (unlikely), pump it full of torpedoes.

The only potential trouble is that most of the crew is traditionally evacuated to the saucer in dire times They might find it a little tight in the stardrive, but I imagine it'd work given time.

That, and the N'V would probably tear the GCS a new one as it was doing the separation maneuver. It would definitely have time to chew holes in the saucer as it approached. This would be something you'd want to do outside of their sensor range, which probably means you'd have to tractor the saucer into battle at warp. (I'm presuming the N'V's sensors could pick the E-D up at significantly shorter distances.)

Still, that's no big problem. It'd be interesting to watch

I just want to point out, that the "real" Negh-Vars aren't multi-kilometer long vessels, like the mirror universe flagship is.


Also in "Yesterday's Enterprise" the Kvorts were a lot stronger. This seems reasonable because the Klingons would've greatly extended thier efforts to increase thier shielding technologies during the 22 year war with the Federation, than it would in a time of peace.

Uraniun235 wrote:A better match for the Negh'Var would probably be a Soveriegn, and a better match for a Galaxy would likely be a Vor'cha. Galaxy against Negh'var would be something like a Constitution vs. Excelsior.

Negh'var wins.

Vorchas are much smaller than a Galaxy, they would be destroyed by a prewar GCS although not without damaging the GCS in return. IMHO a Vorcha is best compared to an Ambassador in terms of power.

Vorchas are much smaller than a Galaxy, they would be destroyed by a prewar GCS although not without damaging the GCS in return. IMHO a Vorcha is best compared to an Ambassador in terms of power.

IMHO, the Vor'chas would be pretty much even with the Galaxy. The Klingon design ethos would mean going for as heavy weapons fit as possible in as small a hull form as possible. Opposite of the Galaxy design ethos, which was build a flying city complete with civilians and slap heavy weapons on it. First run Galaxy vs a Vor'cha would likley end up with the Galaxy the winner, but she'd be mauled pretty badly.

IMHO, the Vor'chas would be pretty much even with the Galaxy. The Klingon design ethos would mean going for as heavy weapons fit as possible in as small a hull form as possible. Opposite of the Galaxy design ethos, which was build a flying city complete with civilians and slap heavy weapons on it. First run Galaxy vs a Vor'cha would likley end up with the Galaxy the winner, but she'd be mauled pretty badly.

I agree with you. The Galaxy would win but she would lose several of her shields and would have considerable hull damage.

Lord MJ wrote:I just want to point out, that the "real" Negh-Vars aren't multi-kilometer long vessels, like the mirror universe flagship is.

Sorry to threadjack, but what was the name of the episode in DS9 where they were in the mirror universe?

Through the Looking Glass?

Shattered mirror?
There were at least 3.

Master of Ossus wrote:The Negh'Var should win easily. Two to three BoP could defeat the E-D, and the Negh'Var is much more voluminous and presumably massive than those little things.

Try one BoP

Negh'Var blows off the Galaxy's saucer and spits down its throat.

Sidious wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:The Negh'Var should win easily. Two to three BoP could defeat the E-D, and the Negh'Var is much more voluminous and presumably massive than those little things.

Try one BoP

Negh'Var blows off the Galaxy's saucer and spits down its throat.

Of coure that was with the ideot, the moron, Riker in command! The Generations loss of the Enterprise was just dumn. Even with thier shields still up the Bird of Prey(and old one at that) should not have lasted long being hit by a full volley by the Enterprise and Riker only fire one Phaser Shot in Responce!

Indeed; reference "The Survivors" for what should have been done. Hell, Riker even gave the order to fire in that episode!

Try one BoP

Try "stupid fucking writers".

evilcat4000 wrote:In "Endgame" Janeway did not even try using the transphasic torpedoes carried by her shuttle against two Neghvars that attacked her. Given how transphasic torpedoes can easily destroy Borg cubes the Neghvar must have some serious shielding.

Either that or this is yet another piece of evidence that TPTs are simply a funky technobabble weapon that only works against the borg and nobody else.